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Linked Discourses 44.7 – Saṁyutta Nikāya 44.7
1. The Undeclared Points – 1. Abyākatavagga
SN 44.7 With Moggallāna – Moggallānasutta
Then the wanderer Vacchagotta went up to Venerable Mahāmoggallāna, and exchanged greetings with him.
Atha kho vacchagotto paribbājako yenāyasmā mahāmoggallāno tenupasaṅkami; upasaṅkamitvā āyasmatā mahāmoggallānena saddhiṁ sammodi.
When the greetings and polite conversation were over, he sat down to one side, and said to Mahāmoggallāna:
Sammodanīyaṁ kathaṁ sāraṇīyaṁ vītisāretvā ekamantaṁ nisīdi. Ekamantaṁ nisinno kho vacchagotto paribbājako āyasmantaṁ mahāmoggallānaṁ etadavoca:
“Master Moggallāna, is this right: ‘the cosmos is eternal’?”
“Kiṁ nu kho, bho moggallāna, sassato loko”ti?
“Vaccha, this has not been declared by the Buddha.”
“Abyākataṁ kho etaṁ, vaccha, bhagavatā:
‘sassato loko’”ti.
“Then is this right: ‘the cosmos is not eternal’ …
“Kiṁ pana, bho moggallāna, asassato loko”ti?
“Etampi kho, vaccha, abyākataṁ bhagavatā:
‘asassato loko’”ti.
‘the world is finite’ …
“Kiṁ nu kho, bho moggallāna, antavā loko”ti?
“Abyākataṁ kho etaṁ, vaccha, bhagavatā:
‘antavā loko’”ti.
‘the world is infinite’ …
“Kiṁ pana, bho moggallāna, anantavā loko”ti?
“Etampi kho, vaccha, abyākataṁ bhagavatā:
‘anantavā loko’”ti.
‘the soul and the body are identical’ …
“Kiṁ nu kho, bho moggallāna, taṁ jīvaṁ taṁ sarīran”ti?
“Abyākataṁ kho etaṁ, vaccha, bhagavatā:
‘taṁ jīvaṁ taṁ sarīran’”ti.
‘the soul and the body are different things’ …
“Kiṁ pana, bho moggallāna, aññaṁ jīvaṁ aññaṁ sarīran”ti?
“Etampi kho, vaccha, abyākataṁ bhagavatā:
‘aññaṁ jīvaṁ aññaṁ sarīran’”ti.
‘a Realized One survives after death’ …
“Kiṁ nu kho, bho moggallāna, hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā”ti?
“Abyākataṁ kho etaṁ, vaccha, bhagavatā:
‘hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’”ti.
‘a Realized One doesn’t survive after death’ …
“Kiṁ pana, bho moggallāna, na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā”ti?
“Etampi kho, vaccha, abyākataṁ bhagavatā:
‘na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’”ti.
‘a Realized One both survives and doesn’t survive after death’ …
“Kiṁ nu kho, bho moggallāna, hoti ca na ca hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā”ti?
“Abyākataṁ kho etaṁ, vaccha, bhagavatā:
‘hoti ca na ca hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’”ti.
‘a Realized One neither survives nor doesn’t survive after death’?”
“Kiṁ pana, bho moggallāna, neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā”ti?
“This too has not been declared by the Buddha.”
“Etampi kho, vaccha, abyākataṁ bhagavatā:
‘neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’”ti.
“What’s the cause, Master Moggallāna, what’s the reason why, when the wanderers who follow other paths are asked these questions, they declare one of these to be true?
“Ko nu kho, bho moggallāna, hetu ko paccayo, yena aññatitthiyānaṁ paribbājakānaṁ evaṁ puṭṭhānaṁ evaṁ veyyākaraṇaṁ hoti—
sassato lokoti vā, asassato lokoti vā, antavā lokoti vā, anantavā lokoti vā, taṁ jīvaṁ taṁ sarīranti vā, aññaṁ jīvaṁ aññaṁ sarīranti vā, hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇāti vā, na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇāti vā, hoti ca na ca hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇāti vā, neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇāti vā?
And what’s the reason why, when the ascetic Gotama is asked these questions, he does not declare one of these to be true?”
Ko pana, bho moggallāna, hetu ko paccayo, yena samaṇassa gotamassa evaṁ puṭṭhassa na evaṁ veyyākaraṇaṁ hoti—
sassato lokotipi, asassato lokotipi, antavā lokotipi, anantavā lokotipi, taṁ jīvaṁ taṁ sarīrantipi, aññaṁ jīvaṁ aññaṁ sarīrantipi, hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇātipi, na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇātipi, hoti ca na ca hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇātipi, neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇātipī”ti?
“Vaccha, the wanderers who follow other paths regard the eye like this: ‘This is mine, I am this, this is my self.’ They regard the ear … nose …
“Aññatitthiyā kho, vaccha, paribbājakā cakkhuṁ ‘etaṁ mama, esohamasmi, eso me attā’ti samanupassanti …pe…
tongue … body …
jivhaṁ ‘etaṁ mama, esohamasmi, eso me attā’ti samanupassanti …pe…
mind like this: ‘This is mine, I am this, this is my self.’
manaṁ ‘etaṁ mama, esohamasmi, eso me attā’ti samanupassanti.
That’s why, when asked, they declare one of those answers to be true.
Tasmā aññatitthiyānaṁ paribbājakānaṁ evaṁ puṭṭhānaṁ evaṁ veyyākaraṇaṁ hoti—
sassato lokoti vā …pe…
neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇāti vā.
The Realized One, the perfected one, the fully awakened Buddha regards the eye like this: ‘This is not mine, I am not this, this is not my self.’ He regards the ear … nose …
Tathāgato ca kho, vaccha, arahaṁ sammāsambuddho cakkhuṁ ‘netaṁ mama, nesohamasmi, na meso attā’ti samanupassati …pe…
tongue … body …
jivhaṁ ‘netaṁ mama, nesohamasmi, na meso attā’ti samanupassati …pe…
mind like this: ‘This is not mine, I am not this, this is not my self.’
manaṁ ‘netaṁ mama, nesohamasmi, na meso attā’ti samanupassati.
That’s why, when asked, he does not declare one of those answers to be true.”
Tasmā tathāgatassa evaṁ puṭṭhassa na evaṁ veyyākaraṇaṁ hoti—
sassato lokotipi …pe…
neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇātipī”ti.
Then the wanderer Vacchagotta got up from his seat and went to the Buddha and exchanged greetings with him.
Atha kho vacchagotto paribbājako uṭṭhāyāsanā yena bhagavā tenupasaṅkami; upasaṅkamitvā bhagavatā saddhiṁ sammodi.
When the greetings and polite conversation were over, he sat down to one side. He asked the Buddha the same questions, and received the same answers.
Sammodanīyaṁ kathaṁ sāraṇīyaṁ vītisāretvā ekamantaṁ nisīdi. Ekamantaṁ nisinno kho vacchagotto paribbājako bhagavantaṁ etadavoca:
“kiṁ nu kho, bho gotama, sassato loko”ti?
“Abyākataṁ kho etaṁ, vaccha, mayā: ‘sassato loko’ti …pe….
“Kiṁ pana, bho gotama, neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā”ti?
“Etampi kho, vaccha, abyākataṁ mayā:
‘neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’”ti.
“Ko nu kho, bho gotama, hetu ko paccayo, yena aññatitthiyānaṁ paribbājakānaṁ evaṁ puṭṭhānaṁ evaṁ veyyākaraṇaṁ hoti:
‘sassato loko’ti vā …pe…
‘neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’ti vā?
Ko pana, bho gotama, hetu ko paccayo, yena bhoto gotamassa evaṁ puṭṭhassa na evaṁ veyyākaraṇaṁ hoti:
‘sassato loko’tipi …pe…
‘neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’tipī”ti?
“Aññatitthiyā kho, vaccha, paribbājakā cakkhuṁ ‘etaṁ mama, esohamasmi, eso me attā’ti samanupassanti …pe…
jivhaṁ ‘etaṁ mama, esohamasmi, eso me attā’ti samanupassanti …pe…
manaṁ ‘etaṁ mama, esohamasmi, eso me attā’ti samanupassanti.
Tasmā aññatitthiyānaṁ paribbājakānaṁ evaṁ puṭṭhānaṁ evaṁ veyyākaraṇaṁ hoti:
‘sassato loko’ti vā …pe…
‘neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’ti vā.
Tathāgato ca kho, vaccha, arahaṁ sammāsambuddho cakkhuṁ ‘netaṁ mama, nesohamasmi, na meso attā’ti samanupassati …pe…
jivhaṁ ‘netaṁ mama, nesohamasmi, na meso attā’ti samanupassati …pe…
manaṁ ‘netaṁ mama, nesohamasmi, na meso attā’ti samanupassati.
Tasmā tathāgatassa evaṁ puṭṭhassa na evaṁ veyyākaraṇaṁ hoti:
‘sassato loko’tipi, ‘asassato loko’tipi, ‘antavā loko’tipi, ‘anantavā loko’tipi, ‘taṁ jīvaṁ taṁ sarīran’tipi, ‘aññaṁ jīvaṁ aññaṁ sarīran’tipi, ‘hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’tipi, ‘na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’tipi, ‘hoti ca na ca hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’tipi, ‘neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’tipī”ti.
He said, “It’s incredible, Master Gotama, it’s amazing!
“Acchariyaṁ, bho gotama, abbhutaṁ, bho gotama.
How the meaning and the phrasing of the teacher and the disciple fit together and agree without contradiction when it comes to the chief matter!
Yatra hi nāma satthu ca sāvakassa ca atthena attho byañjanena byañjanaṁ saṁsandissati samessati na virodhayissati, yadidaṁ aggapadasmiṁ.
Just now I went to the ascetic Mahāmoggallāna and asked him about this matter.
Idānāhaṁ, bho gotama, samaṇaṁ mahāmoggallānaṁ upasaṅkamitvā etamatthaṁ apucchiṁ.
And he explained it to me with these words and phrases, just like Master Gotama.
Samaṇopi me moggallāno etehi padehi etehi byañjanehi tamatthaṁ byākāsi, seyyathāpi bhavaṁ gotamo.
It’s incredible, Master Gotama, it’s amazing!
Acchariyaṁ, bho gotama, abbhutaṁ, bho gotama.
How the meaning and the phrasing of the teacher and the disciple fit together and agree without contradiction when it comes to the chief matter!”
Yatra hi nāma satthu ca sāvakassa ca atthena attho byañjanena byañjanaṁ saṁsandissati samessati na virodhayissati, yadidaṁ aggapadasmin”ti.