MN 103 Is This What You Think Of Me?

Medium Discourses Collection 103 – Majjhima Nikāya 103

MN 103 Is This What You Think Of Me? – Kintisutta

1.1

So I have heard.

Evaṁ me sutaṁ—

1.2

At one time the Buddha was staying near Kusināra, in the Forest of Offerings.

ekaṁ samayaṁ bhagavā pisinārāyaṁ viharati baliharaṇe vanasaṇḍe.

1.3

There the Buddha addressed the bhikkhū,

Tatra kho bhagavā bhikkhū āmantesi:

1.4

“Bhikkhū!”

“bhikkhavo”ti.

1.5

“Venerable sir,” they replied.

“Bhadante”ti te bhikkhū bhagavato paccassosuṁ.

1.6

The Buddha said this:

Bhagavā etadavoca:

2.1

“Bhikkhū, is this what you think of me?

“kinti vo, bhikkhave, mayi hoti:

2.2

‘The ascetic Gotama teaches the Dhamma for the sake of robes, almsfood, lodgings, or rebirth in this or that state.’”

‘cīvarahetu vā samaṇo gotamo dhammaṁ deseti, piṇḍapātahetu vā samaṇo gotamo dhammaṁ deseti, senāsanahetu vā samaṇo gotamo dhammaṁ deseti, itibhavābhavahetu vā samaṇo gotamo dhammaṁ desetī’”ti?

2.3

“No sir, we don’t think of you that way.”

“Na kho no, bhante, bhagavati evaṁ hoti:

2.4

2.5

“If you don’t think of me that way,

“Na ca kira vo, bhikkhave, mayi evaṁ hoti:

2.6

‘cīvarahetu vā samaṇo gotamo dhammaṁ deseti …pe…

2.7

itibhavābhavahetu vā samaṇo gotamo dhammaṁ desetī’ti;

2.8

then what exactly do you think of me?”

atha kinti carahi vo, bhikkhave, mayi hotī”ti?

2.9

“We think of you this way:

“Evaṁ kho no, bhante, bhagavati hoti:

2.10

‘The Buddha is compassionate and wants what’s best for us.

‘anukampako bhagavā hitesī;

2.11

He teaches out of compassion.’”

anukampaṁ upādāya dhammaṁ desetī’”ti.

2.12

“So it seems you think

“Evañca kira vo, bhikkhave, mayi hoti:

2.13

‘anukampako bhagavā hitesī;

2.14

that I teach out of compassion.

anukampaṁ upādāya dhammaṁ desetī’ti.

3.1

In that case, each and every one of you should train in the things I have taught from my direct knowledge, that is:

Tasmātiha, bhikkhave, ye vo mayā dhammā abhiññā desitā, seyyathidaṁ—

3.2

the four kinds of mindfulness meditation, the four right efforts, the four bases of psychic power, the five faculties, the five powers, the seven awakening factors, and the noble eightfold path. You should train in these things in harmony, appreciating each other, without quarreling.

cattāro satipaṭṭhānā cattāro sammappadhānā cattāro iddhipādā pañcindriyāni pañca balāni satta bojjhaṅgā ariyo aṭṭhaṅgiko maggo, tattha sabbeheva samaggehi sammodamānehi avivadamānehi sikkhitabbaṁ.

4.1

As you do so, it may happen that two bhikkhū disagree about the teaching.

Tesañca vo, bhikkhave, samaggānaṁ sammodamānānaṁ avivadamānānaṁ sikkhataṁ siyaṁsu dve bhikkhū abhidhamme nānāvādā.

5.1

Now, you might think,

Tatra ce tumhākaṁ evamassa:

5.2

‘These two venerables disagree on both the meaning and the phrasing.’ So you should approach whichever bhikkhu you think is most amenable and say to them:

‘imesaṁ kho āyasmantānaṁ atthato ceva nānaṁ byañjanato ca nānan’ti, tattha yaṁ bhikkhuṁ suvacataraṁ maññeyyātha so upasaṅkamitvā evamassa vacanīyo:

5.3

‘The venerables disagree on the meaning and the phrasing.

‘āyasmantānaṁ kho atthato ceva nānaṁ, byañjanato ca nānaṁ.

5.4

But the venerables should know that this is how

Tadamināpetaṁ āyasmanto jānātha—

5.5

such disagreement on the meaning and the phrasing comes to be.

yathā atthato ceva nānaṁ, byañjanato ca nānaṁ.

5.6

Please don’t get into a dispute about this.’

Māyasmanto vivādaṁ āpajjitthā’ti.

5.7

Then they should approach whichever bhikkhu they think is most amenable among those who side with the other party and say to them:

Athāparesaṁ ekatopakkhikānaṁ bhikkhūnaṁ yaṁ bhikkhuṁ suvacataraṁ maññeyyātha so upasaṅkamitvā evamassa vacanīyo:

5.8

‘The venerables disagree on the meaning and the phrasing.

‘āyasmantānaṁ kho atthato ceva nānaṁ, byañjanato ca nānaṁ.

5.9

But the venerables should know that this is how

Tadamināpetaṁ āyasmanto jānātha—

5.10

such disagreement on the meaning and the phrasing comes to be.

yathā atthato ceva nānaṁ, byañjanato ca nānaṁ.

5.11

Please don’t get into a dispute about this.’

Māyasmanto vivādaṁ āpajjitthā’ti.

5.12

So you should remember what has been incorrectly memorized as incorrectly memorized and what has been correctly memorized as correctly memorized.

Iti duggahitaṁ duggahitato dhāretabbaṁ, suggahitaṁ suggahitato dhāretabbaṁ.

5.13

Remembering this, you should speak on the teaching and the training.

Duggahitaṁ duggahitato dhāretvā suggahitaṁ suggahitato dhāretvā yo dhammo yo vinayo so bhāsitabbo.

6.1

Now, you might think,

Tatra ce tumhākaṁ evamassa:

6.2

‘These two venerables disagree on the meaning but agree on the phrasing.’ So you should approach whichever bhikkhu you think is most amenable and say to them:

‘imesaṁ kho āyasmantānaṁ atthato hi kho nānaṁ, byañjanato sametī’ti, tattha yaṁ bhikkhuṁ suvacataraṁ maññeyyātha so upasaṅkamitvā evamassa vacanīyo:

6.3

‘The venerables disagree on the meaning but agree on the phrasing.

‘āyasmantānaṁ kho atthato hi nānaṁ, byañjanato sameti.

6.4

But the venerables should know that this is how

Tadamināpetaṁ āyasmanto jānātha—

6.5

such disagreement on the meaning and agreement on the phrasing comes to be.

yathā atthato hi kho nānaṁ, byañjanato sameti.

6.6

Please don’t get into a dispute about this.’

Māyasmanto vivādaṁ āpajjitthā’ti.

6.7

Then they should approach whichever bhikkhu they think is most amenable among those who side with the other party and say to them:

Athāparesaṁ ekatopakkhikānaṁ bhikkhūnaṁ yaṁ bhikkhuṁ suvacataraṁ maññeyyātha so upasaṅkamitvā evamassa vacanīyo:

6.8

‘The venerables disagree on the meaning but agree on the phrasing.

‘āyasmantānaṁ kho atthato hi kho nānaṁ, byañjanato sameti.

6.9

But the venerables should know that this is how

Tadamināpetaṁ āyasmanto jānātha—

6.10

such disagreement on the meaning and agreement on the phrasing comes to be.

yathā atthato hi kho nānaṁ, byañjanato sameti.

6.11

Please don’t get into a dispute about this.’

Māyasmanto vivādaṁ āpajjitthā’ti.

6.12

So you should remember what has been incorrectly memorized as incorrectly memorized and what has been correctly memorized as correctly memorized.

Iti duggahitaṁ duggahitato dhāretabbaṁ, suggahitaṁ suggahitato dhāretabbaṁ.

6.13

Remembering this, you should speak on the teaching and the training.

Duggahitaṁ duggahitato dhāretvā suggahitaṁ suggahitato dhāretvā yo dhammo yo vinayo so bhāsitabbo.

7.1

Now, you might think,

Tatra ce tumhākaṁ evamassa:

7.2

‘These two venerables agree on the meaning but disagree on the phrasing.’ So you should approach whichever bhikkhu you think is most amenable and say to them:

‘imesaṁ kho āyasmantānaṁ atthato hi kho sameti, byañjanato nānan’ti, tattha yaṁ bhikkhuṁ suvacataraṁ maññeyyātha so upasaṅkamitvā evamassa vacanīyo:

7.3

‘The venerables agree on the meaning but disagree on the phrasing.

‘āyasmantānaṁ kho atthato hi sameti, byañjanato nānaṁ.

7.4

But the venerables should know that this is how

Tadamināpetaṁ āyasmanto jānātha—

7.5

such agreement on the meaning and disagreement on the phrasing comes to be.

yathā atthato hi kho sameti, byañjanato nānaṁ.

7.6

But the phrasing is a minor matter.

Appamattakaṁ kho panetaṁ yadidaṁ—byañjanaṁ.

7.7

Please don’t get into a dispute about something so minor.’

Māyasmanto appamattake vivādaṁ āpajjitthā’ti.

7.8

Then they should approach whichever bhikkhu they think is most amenable among those who side with the other party and say to them:

Athāparesaṁ ekatopakkhikānaṁ bhikkhūnaṁ yaṁ bhikkhuṁ suvacataraṁ maññeyyātha so upasaṅkamitvā evamassa vacanīyo:

7.9

‘The venerables agree on the meaning but disagree on the phrasing.

‘āyasmantānaṁ kho atthato hi sameti, byañjanato nānaṁ.

7.10

But the venerables should know that this is how

Tadamināpetaṁ āyasmanto jānātha—

7.11

such agreement on the meaning and disagreement on the phrasing comes to be.

yathā atthato hi kho sameti, byañjanato nānaṁ.

7.12

But the phrasing is a minor matter.

Appamattakaṁ kho panetaṁ yadidaṁ—byañjanaṁ.

7.13

Please don’t get into a dispute about something so minor.’

Māyasmanto appamattake vivādaṁ āpajjitthā’ti.

7.14

So you should remember what has been correctly memorized as correctly memorized and what has been incorrectly memorized as incorrectly memorized.

Iti suggahitaṁ suggahitato dhāretabbaṁ, duggahitaṁ duggahitato dhāretabbaṁ.

7.15

Remembering this, you should speak on the teaching and the training.

Suggahitaṁ suggahitato dhāretvā duggahitaṁ duggahitato dhāretvā yo dhammo yo vinayo so bhāsitabbo.

8.1

Now, you might think,

Tatra ce tumhākaṁ evamassa:

8.2

‘These two venerables agree on both the meaning and the phrasing.’ So you should approach whichever bhikkhu you think is most amenable and say to them:

‘imesaṁ kho āyasmantānaṁ atthato ceva sameti byañjanato ca sametī’ti, tattha yaṁ bhikkhuṁ suvacataraṁ maññeyyātha so upasaṅkamitvā evamassa vacanīyo:

8.3

‘The venerables agree on both the meaning and the phrasing.

‘āyasmantānaṁ kho atthato ceva sameti, byañjanato ca sameti.

8.4

But the venerables should know that this is how

Tadamināpetaṁ āyasmanto jānātha—

8.5

they come to agree on the meaning and the phrasing.

yathā atthato ceva sameti byañjanato ca sameti.

8.6

Please don’t get into a dispute about this.’

Māyasmanto vivādaṁ āpajjitthā’ti.

8.7

Then they should approach whichever bhikkhu they think is most amenable among those who side with the other party and say to them:

Athāparesaṁ ekatopakkhikānaṁ bhikkhūnaṁ yaṁ bhikkhuṁ suvacataraṁ maññeyyātha so upasaṅkamitvā evamassa vacanīyo:

8.8

‘The venerables agree on both the meaning and the phrasing.

‘āyasmantānaṁ kho atthato ceva sameti byañjanato ca sameti.

8.9

But the venerables should know that this is how

Tadamināpetaṁ āyasmanto jānātha—

8.10

they come to agree on the meaning and the phrasing.

yathā atthato ceva sameti byañjanato ca sameti.

8.11

Please don’t get into a dispute about this.’

Māyasmanto vivādaṁ āpajjitthā’ti.

8.12

So you should remember what has been correctly memorized as correctly memorized.

Iti suggahitaṁ suggahitato dhāretabbaṁ.

8.13

Remembering this, you should speak on the teaching and the training.

Suggahitaṁ suggahitato dhāretvā yo dhammo yo vinayo so bhāsitabbo.

9.1

As you train in harmony, appreciating each other, without quarreling, one of the bhikkhū might commit an offense or transgression.

Tesañca vo, bhikkhave, samaggānaṁ sammodamānānaṁ avivadamānānaṁ sikkhataṁ siyā aññatarassa bhikkhuno āpatti siyā vītikkamo,

10.1

In such a case, you should not be in a hurry to accuse them. The individual should be examined like this:

tatra, bhikkhave, na codanāya taritabbaṁ. Puggalo upaparikkhitabbo:

10.2

‘I won’t be troubled and the other individual won’t be hurt, for they’re not irritable and hostile. They don’t hold fast to their views, but let them go easily. I can draw them away from the unskillful and establish them in the skillful.’

‘iti mayhañca avihesā bhavissati parassa ca puggalassa anupaghāto, paro hi puggalo akkodhano anupanāhī adaḷhadiṭṭhī suppaṭinissaggī, sakkomi cāhaṁ etaṁ puggalaṁ akusalā vuṭṭhāpetvā kusale patiṭṭhāpetun’ti.

10.3

If that’s what you think, then it’s appropriate to speak to them.

Sace, bhikkhave, evamassa, kallaṁ vacanāya.

11.1

But suppose you think this:

Sace pana, bhikkhave, evamassa:

11.2

‘I will be troubled and the other individual will be hurt, for they’re irritable and hostile. However, they don’t hold fast to their views, but let them go easily. I can draw them away from the unskillful and establish them in the skillful.

‘mayhaṁ kho avihesā bhavissati parassa ca puggalassa upaghāto, paro hi puggalo kodhano upanāhī adaḷhadiṭṭhī suppaṭinissaggī, sakkomi cāhaṁ etaṁ puggalaṁ akusalā vuṭṭhāpetvā kusale patiṭṭhāpetuṁ.

11.3

But for the other individual to get hurt is a minor matter.

Appamattakaṁ kho panetaṁ yadidaṁ—parassa puggalassa upaghāto.

11.4

It’s more important

Atha kho etadeva bahutaraṁ—

11.5

that I can draw them away from the unskillful and establish them in the skillful.’

svāhaṁ sakkomi etaṁ puggalaṁ akusalā vuṭṭhāpetvā kusale patiṭṭhāpetun’ti.

11.6

If that’s what you think, then it’s appropriate to speak to them.

Sace, bhikkhave, evamassa, kallaṁ vacanāya.

12.1

But suppose you think this:

Sace pana, bhikkhave, evamassa:

12.2

‘I will be troubled but the other individual won’t be hurt, for they’re not irritable and hostile. However, they hold fast to their views, refusing to let go. Nevertheless, I can draw them away from the unskillful and establish them in the skillful.

‘mayhaṁ kho vihesā bhavissati parassa ca puggalassa anupaghāto. Paro hi puggalo akkodhano anupanāhī daḷhadiṭṭhī duppaṭinissaggī, sakkomi cāhaṁ etaṁ puggalaṁ akusalā vuṭṭhāpetvā kusale patiṭṭhāpetuṁ.

12.3

But for me to be troubled is a minor matter.

Appamattakaṁ kho panetaṁ yadidaṁ—mayhaṁ vihesā.

12.4

It’s more important

Atha kho etadeva bahutaraṁ—

12.5

that I can draw them away from the unskillful and establish them in the skillful.’

svāhaṁ sakkomi etaṁ puggalaṁ akusalā vuṭṭhāpetvā kusale patiṭṭhāpetun’ti.

12.6

If that’s what you think, then it’s appropriate to speak to them.

Sace, bhikkhave, evamassa, kallaṁ vacanāya.

13.1

But suppose you think this:

Sace pana, bhikkhave, evamassa:

13.2

‘I will be troubled and the other individual will be hurt, for they’re irritable and hostile. And they hold fast to their views, refusing to let go. Nevertheless, I can draw them away from the unskillful and establish them in the skillful.

‘mayhañca kho vihesā bhavissati parassa ca puggalassa upaghāto. Paro hi puggalo kodhano upanāhī daḷhadiṭṭhī duppaṭinissaggī, sakkomi cāhaṁ etaṁ puggalaṁ akusalā vuṭṭhāpetvā kusale patiṭṭhāpetuṁ.

13.3

But for me to be troubled and the other individual to get hurt is a minor matter.

Appamattakaṁ kho panetaṁ yadidaṁ—mayhañca vihesā bhavissati parassa ca puggalassa upaghāto.

13.4

It’s more important

Atha kho etadeva bahutaraṁ—

13.5

that I can draw them away from the unskillful and establish them in the skillful.’

svāhaṁ sakkomi etaṁ puggalaṁ akusalā vuṭṭhāpetvā kusale patiṭṭhāpetun’ti.

13.6

If that’s what you think, then it’s appropriate to speak to them.

Sace, bhikkhave, evamassa, kallaṁ vacanāya.

14.1

But suppose you think this:

Sace pana, bhikkhave, evamassa:

14.2

‘I will be troubled and the other individual will be hurt, for they’re irritable and hostile. And they hold fast to their views, refusing to let go. I cannot draw them away from the unskillful and establish them in the skillful.’

‘mayhañca kho vihesā bhavissati parassa ca puggalassa upaghāto. Paro hi puggalo kodhano upanāhī daḷhadiṭṭhī duppaṭinissaggī, na cāhaṁ sakkomi etaṁ puggalaṁ akusalā vuṭṭhāpetvā kusale patiṭṭhāpetun’ti.

14.3

Don’t underestimate the value of equanimity for such a person.

Evarūpe, bhikkhave, puggale upekkhā nātimaññitabbā.

15.1

As you train in harmony, appreciating each other, without quarreling, mutual tale-bearing might come up, with contempt for each other’s views, resentful, bitter, and exasperated.

Tesañca vo, bhikkhave, samaggānaṁ sammodamānānaṁ avivadamānānaṁ sikkhataṁ aññamaññassa vacīsaṁhāro uppajjeyya diṭṭhipaḷāso cetaso āghāto appaccayo anabhiraddhi.

15.2

In this case you should approach whichever bhikkhu you think is most amenable among those who side with one party and say to them:

Tattha ekatopakkhikānaṁ bhikkhūnaṁ yaṁ bhikkhuṁ suvacataraṁ maññeyyātha so upasaṅkamitvā evamassa vacanīyo:

15.3

‘Reverend, as we were training, mutual tale-bearing came up. If the Ascetic knew about this, would he rebuke it?’

‘yaṁ no, āvuso, amhākaṁ samaggānaṁ sammodamānānaṁ avivadamānānaṁ sikkhataṁ aññamaññassa vacīsaṁhāro uppanno diṭṭhipaḷāso cetaso āghāto appaccayo anabhiraddhi, taṁ jānamāno samaṇo garaheyyā’ti.

15.4

Answering rightly, the bhikkhu should say:

Sammā byākaramāno, bhikkhave, bhikkhu evaṁ byākareyya:

15.5

‘Yes, reverend, he would.’

15.6

‘But without giving that up, reverend, can one realize extinguishment?’

Etaṁ panāvuso, dhammaṁ appahāya nibbānaṁ sacchikareyyā’ti.

15.7

Answering rightly, the bhikkhu should say:

Sammā byākaramāno, bhikkhave, bhikkhu evaṁ byākareyya:

15.8

‘No, reverend, one cannot.’

‘etaṁ, āvuso, dhammaṁ appahāya na nibbānaṁ sacchikareyyā’ti.

16.1

Then they should approach whichever bhikkhu they think is most amenable among those who side with the other party and say to them:

Athāparesaṁ ekatopakkhikānaṁ bhikkhūnaṁ yaṁ bhikkhuṁ suvacataraṁ maññeyyātha, so upasaṅkamitvā evamassa vacanīyo:

16.2

‘Reverend, as we were training, mutual tale-bearing came up. If the Ascetic knew about this, would he rebuke it?’

16.3

Answering rightly, the bhikkhu should say:

Sammā byākaramāno, bhikkhave, bhikkhu evaṁ byākareyya:

16.4

‘Yes, reverend, he would.’

‘yaṁ no, āvuso, amhākaṁ samaggānaṁ sammodamānānaṁ avivadamānānaṁ sikkhataṁ aññamaññassa vacīsaṁhāro uppanno diṭṭhipaḷāso cetaso āghāto appaccayo anabhiraddhi taṁ jānamāno samaṇo garaheyyāti.

16.5

‘But without giving that up, reverend, can one realize extinguishment?’

Etaṁ panāvuso, dhammaṁ appahāya nibbānaṁ sacchikareyyā’ti.

16.6

Answering rightly, the bhikkhu should say:

Sammā byākaramāno, bhikkhave, bhikkhu evaṁ byākareyya:

16.7

‘No, reverend, one cannot.’

‘etaṁ kho, āvuso, dhammaṁ appahāya na nibbānaṁ sacchikareyyā’ti.

17.1

If others should ask that bhikkhu:

Tañce, bhikkhave, bhikkhuṁ pare evaṁ puccheyyuṁ:

17.2

‘Were you the venerable who drew those bhikkhū away from the unskillful and established them in the skillful?’

‘āyasmatā no ete bhikkhū akusalā vuṭṭhāpetvā kusale patiṭṭhāpitā’ti?

17.3

Answering rightly, the bhikkhu should say:

Sammā byākaramāno, bhikkhave, bhikkhu evaṁ byākareyya:

17.4

‘Well, reverends, I approached the Buddha. He taught me the Dhamma. After hearing that teaching I explained it to those bhikkhū.

‘idhāhaṁ, āvuso, yena bhagavā tenupasaṅkamiṁ, tassa me bhagavā dhammaṁ desesi, tāhaṁ dhammaṁ sutvā tesaṁ bhikkhūnaṁ abhāsiṁ.

17.5

When those bhikkhū heard that teaching they were drawn away from the unskillful and established in the skillful.’

Taṁ te bhikkhū dhammaṁ sutvā akusalā vuṭṭhahiṁsu, kusale patiṭṭhahiṁsū’ti.

17.6

Answering in this way, that bhikkhu doesn’t glorify themselves or put others down. They answer in line with the teaching, with no legitimate grounds for rebuke and criticism.”

Evaṁ byākaramāno kho, bhikkhave, bhikkhu na ceva attānaṁ ukkaṁseti, na paraṁ vambheti, dhammassa cānudhammaṁ byākaroti, na ca koci sahadhammiko vādānuvādo gārayhaṁ ṭhānaṁ āgacchatī”ti.

17.7

That is what the Buddha said.

Idamavoca bhagavā.

17.8

Satisfied, the bhikkhū were happy with what the Buddha said.

Attamanā te bhikkhū bhagavato bhāsitaṁ abhinandunti.

17.9

Kintisuttaṁ niṭṭhitaṁ tatiyaṁ.