MN 14 The Shorter Discourse on the Mass of Suffering

Medium Discourses Collection 14 – Majjhima Nikāya 14

MN 14 The Shorter Discourse on the Mass of Suffering – Cūḷadukkhakkhandhasutta

1.1

So I have heard.

Evaṁ me sutaṁ—

1.2

At one time the Buddha was staying in the land of the Sakyans, near Kapilavatthu in the Banyan Tree Monastery.

ekaṁ samayaṁ bhagavā sakkesu viharati kapilavatthusmiṁ nigrodhārāme.

2.1

Then Mahānāma the Sakyan went up to the Buddha, bowed, sat down to one side, and said to him,

Atha kho mahānāmo sakko yena bhagavā tenupasaṅkami; upasaṅkamitvā bhagavantaṁ abhivādetvā ekamantaṁ nisīdi. Ekamantaṁ nisinno kho mahānāmo sakko bhagavantaṁ etadavoca:

2.2

“For a long time, sir, I have understood your teaching like this:

“dīgharattāhaṁ, bhante, bhagavatā evaṁ dhammaṁ desitaṁ ājānāmi:

2.3

‘Greed, hate, and delusion are corruptions of the mind.’

‘lobho cittassa upakkileso, doso cittassa upakkileso, moho cittassa upakkileso’ti.

2.4

Evañcāhaṁ, bhante, bhagavatā dhammaṁ desitaṁ ājānāmi:

2.5

‘lobho cittassa upakkileso, doso cittassa upakkileso, moho cittassa upakkileso’ti.

2.6

Despite understanding this, sometimes my mind is occupied by thoughts of greed, hate, and delusion.

Atha ca pana me ekadā lobhadhammāpi cittaṁ pariyādāya tiṭṭhanti, dosadhammāpi cittaṁ pariyādāya tiṭṭhanti, mohadhammāpi cittaṁ pariyādāya tiṭṭhanti.

2.7

Tassa mayhaṁ, bhante, evaṁ hoti:

2.8

I wonder what qualities remain in me that I have such thoughts?”

‘kosu nāma me dhammo ajjhattaṁ appahīno yena me ekadā lobhadhammāpi cittaṁ pariyādāya tiṭṭhanti, dosadhammāpi cittaṁ pariyādāya tiṭṭhanti, mohadhammāpi cittaṁ pariyādāya tiṭṭhantī’”ti.

3.1

“Mahānāma, there is a quality that remains in you that makes you have such thoughts.

“So eva kho te, mahānāma, dhammo ajjhattaṁ appahīno yena te ekadā lobhadhammāpi cittaṁ pariyādāya tiṭṭhanti, dosadhammāpi cittaṁ pariyādāya tiṭṭhanti, mohadhammāpi cittaṁ pariyādāya tiṭṭhanti.

3.2

For if you had given up that quality you would not still be living at home and enjoying sensual pleasures.

So ca hi te, mahānāma, dhammo ajjhattaṁ pahīno abhavissa, na tvaṁ agāraṁ ajjhāvaseyyāsi, na kāme paribhuñjeyyāsi.

3.3

But because you haven’t given up that quality you are still living at home and enjoying sensual pleasures.

Yasmā ca kho te, mahānāma, so eva dhammo ajjhattaṁ appahīno tasmā tvaṁ agāraṁ ajjhāvasasi, kāme paribhuñjasi.

4.1

Sensual pleasures give little gratification and much suffering and distress, and they are all the more full of drawbacks.

‘Appassādā kāmā bahudukkhā bahupāyāsā, ādīnavo ettha bhiyyo’ti—

4.2

Even though a noble disciple has clearly seen this with right wisdom, so long as they don’t achieve the rapture and bliss that are apart from sensual pleasures and unskillful qualities, or something even more peaceful than that,

iti cepi, mahānāma, ariyasāvakassa yathābhūtaṁ sammappaññāya sudiṭṭhaṁ hoti, so ca aññatreva kāmehi aññatra akusalehi dhammehi pītisukhaṁ nādhigacchati, aññaṁ vā tato santataraṁ;

4.3

they might still return to sensual pleasures.

atha kho so neva tāva anāvaṭṭī kāmesu hoti.

4.4

But when they do achieve that rapture and bliss, or something more peaceful than that,

Yato ca kho, mahānāma, ariyasāvakassa ‘appassādā kāmā bahudukkhā bahupāyāsā, ādīnavo ettha bhiyyo’ti—evametaṁ yathābhūtaṁ sammappaññāya sudiṭṭhaṁ hoti, so ca aññatreva kāmehi aññatra akusalehi dhammehi pītisukhaṁ adhigacchati aññaṁ vā tato santataraṁ;

4.5

they will not return to sensual pleasures.

atha kho so anāvaṭṭī kāmesu hoti.

5.1

Before my awakening—when I was still unawakened but intent on awakening—I too clearly saw with right wisdom that:

Mayhampi kho, mahānāma, pubbeva sambodhā, anabhisambuddhassa bodhisattasseva sato,

5.2

‘Sensual pleasures give little gratification and much suffering and distress, and they are all the more full of drawbacks.’

‘appassādā kāmā bahudukkhā bahupāyāsā, ādīnavo ettha bhiyyo’ti—evametaṁ yathābhūtaṁ sammappaññāya sudiṭṭhaṁ hoti,

5.3

But so long as I didn’t achieve the rapture and bliss that are apart from sensual pleasures and unskillful qualities, or something even more peaceful than that,

so ca aññatreva kāmehi aññatra akusalehi dhammehi pītisukhaṁ nājjhagamaṁ, aññaṁ vā tato santataraṁ;

5.4

I didn’t announce that I would not return to sensual pleasures.

atha khvāhaṁ neva tāva anāvaṭṭī kāmesu paccaññāsiṁ.

5.5

But when I did achieve that rapture and bliss, or something more peaceful than that,

Yato ca kho me, mahānāma, ‘appassādā kāmā bahudukkhā bahupāyāsā, ādīnavo ettha bhiyyo’ti—evametaṁ yathābhūtaṁ sammappaññāya sudiṭṭhaṁ ahosi, so ca aññatreva kāmehi aññatra akusalehi dhammehi pītisukhaṁ ajjhagamaṁ, aññaṁ vā tato santataraṁ;

5.6

I announced that I would not return to sensual pleasures.

athāhaṁ anāvaṭṭī kāmesu paccaññāsiṁ.

6.1

And what is the gratification of sensual pleasures?

Ko ca, mahānāma, kāmānaṁ assādo?

6.2

There are these five kinds of sensual qualities (kāmaguṇā).

Pañcime, mahānāma, kāmaguṇā.

6.3

What five?

Katame pañca?

6.4

Sights known by the eye that are likable, desirable, agreeable, pleasant, sensual, and arousing.

Cakkhuviññeyyā rūpā iṭṭhā kantā manāpā piyarūpā kāmūpasaṁhitā rajanīyā;

6.5

Sounds known by the ear …

sotaviññeyyā saddā …pe…

6.6

Smells known by the nose …

ghānaviññeyyā gandhā …

6.7

Tastes known by the tongue …

jivhāviññeyyā rasā …

6.8

Touches known by the body that are likable, desirable, agreeable, pleasant, sensual, and arousing.

kāyaviññeyyā phoṭṭhabbā iṭṭhā kantā manāpā piyarūpā kāmūpasaṁhitā rajanīyā—

6.9

These are the five kinds of sensual qualities (kāmaguṇā).

ime kho, mahānāma, pañca kāmaguṇā.

6.10

The pleasure and happiness that arise from these five kinds of sensual qualities (kāmaguṇā): this is the gratification of sensual pleasures.

Yaṁ kho, mahānāma, ime pañca kāmaguṇe paṭicca uppajjati sukhaṁ somanassaṁ—

6.11

ayaṁ kāmānaṁ assādo.

7.1

And what is the drawback of sensual pleasures?

Ko ca, mahānāma, kāmānaṁ ādīnavo?

7.2

It’s when a gentleman earns a living by means such as

Idha, mahānāma, kulaputto yena sippaṭṭhānena jīvikaṁ kappeti—

7.3

computing, accounting, calculating, farming, trade, raising cattle, archery, government service, or one of the professions.

yadi muddāya yadi gaṇanāya yadi saṅkhānena yadi kasiyā yadi vaṇijjāya yadi gorakkhena yadi issatthena yadi rājaporisena yadi sippaññatarena,

7.4

But they must face cold and heat, being hurt by the touch of flies, mosquitoes, wind, sun, and reptiles, and risking death from hunger and thirst.

sītassa purakkhato uṇhassa purakkhato ḍaṁsamakasavātātapasarīsapasamphassehi rissamāno khuppipāsāya mīyamāno;

7.5

This is a drawback of sensual pleasures apparent in this very life, a mass of suffering caused by sensual pleasures.

ayampi, mahānāma, kāmānaṁ ādīnavo sandiṭṭhiko dukkhakkhandho kāmahetu kāmanidānaṁ kāmādhikaraṇaṁ kāmānameva hetu.

8.1

That gentleman might try hard, strive, and make an effort, but fail to earn any money.

Tassa ce, mahānāma, kulaputtassa evaṁ uṭṭhahato ghaṭato vāyamato te bhogā nābhinipphajjanti,

8.2

If this happens, they sorrow and wail and lament, beating their breast and falling into confusion, saying: ‘Oh, my hard work is wasted. My efforts are fruitless!’

so socati kilamati paridevati urattāḷiṁ kandati sammohaṁ āpajjati ‘moghaṁ vata me uṭṭhānaṁ, aphalo vata me vāyāmo’ti.

8.3

This too is a drawback of sensual pleasures apparent in this very life, a mass of suffering caused by sensual pleasures.

Ayampi, mahānāma, kāmānaṁ ādīnavo sandiṭṭhiko dukkhakkhandho kāmahetu kāmanidānaṁ kāmādhikaraṇaṁ kāmānameva hetu.

9.1

That gentleman might try hard, strive, and make an effort, and succeed in earning money.

Tassa ce, mahānāma, kulaputtassa evaṁ uṭṭhahato ghaṭato vāyamato te bhogā abhinipphajjanti.

9.2

But they experience pain and sadness when they try to protect it, thinking:

So tesaṁ bhogānaṁ ārakkhādhikaraṇaṁ dukkhaṁ domanassaṁ paṭisaṁvedeti:

9.3

‘How can I prevent my wealth from being taken by rulers or bandits, consumed by fire, swept away by flood, or taken by unloved heirs?’

‘kinti me bhoge neva rājāno hareyyuṁ, na corā hareyyuṁ, na aggi daheyya, na udakaṁ vaheyya, na appiyā vā dāyādā hareyyun’ti.

9.4

And even though they protect it and ward it, rulers or bandits take it, or fire consumes it, or flood sweeps it away, or unloved heirs take it.

Tassa evaṁ ārakkhato gopayato te bhoge rājāno vā haranti, corā vā haranti, aggi vā dahati, udakaṁ vā vahati, appiyā vā dāyādā haranti.

9.5

They sorrow and wail and lament, beating their breast and falling into confusion:

So socati kilamati paridevati urattāḷiṁ kandati sammohaṁ āpajjati:

9.6

‘What used to be mine is gone.’

‘yampi me ahosi tampi no natthī’ti.

9.7

This too is a drawback of sensual pleasures apparent in this very life, a mass of suffering caused by sensual pleasures.

Ayampi, mahānāma, kāmānaṁ ādīnavo sandiṭṭhiko dukkhakkhandho kāmahetu kāmanidānaṁ kāmādhikaraṇaṁ kāmānameva hetu.

10.1

Furthermore, for the sake of sensual pleasures kings fight with kings, aristocrats fight with aristocrats, brahmins fight with brahmins, and householders fight with householders. A mother fights with her child, child with mother, father with child, and child with father. Brother fights with brother, brother with sister, sister with brother, and friend fights with friend.

Puna caparaṁ, mahānāma, kāmahetu kāmanidānaṁ kāmādhikaraṇaṁ kāmānameva hetu rājānopi rājūhi vivadanti, khattiyāpi khattiyehi vivadanti, brāhmaṇāpi brāhmaṇehi vivadanti, gahapatīpi gahapatīhi vivadanti, mātāpi puttena vivadati, puttopi mātarā vivadati, pitāpi puttena vivadati, puttopi pitarā vivadati, bhātāpi bhātarā vivadati, bhātāpi bhaginiyā vivadati, bhaginīpi bhātarā vivadati, sahāyopi sahāyena vivadati.

10.2

Once they’ve started quarreling, arguing, and disputing, they attack each other with fists, stones, rods, and swords,

Te tattha kalahaviggahavivādāpannā aññamaññaṁ pāṇīhipi upakkamanti, leḍḍūhipi upakkamanti, daṇḍehipi upakkamanti, satthehipi upakkamanti.

10.3

resulting in death and deadly pain.

Te tattha maraṇampi nigacchanti, maraṇamattampi dukkhaṁ.

10.4

This too is a drawback of sensual pleasures apparent in this very life, a mass of suffering caused by sensual pleasures.

Ayampi, mahānāma, kāmānaṁ ādīnavo sandiṭṭhiko dukkhakkhandho kāmahetu kāmanidānaṁ kāmādhikaraṇaṁ kāmānameva hetu.

11.1

Furthermore, for the sake of sensual pleasures they don their sword and shield, fasten their bow and arrows, and plunge into a battle massed on both sides, with arrows and spears flying and swords flashing.

Puna caparaṁ, mahānāma, kāmahetu kāmanidānaṁ kāmādhikaraṇaṁ kāmānameva hetu asicammaṁ gahetvā, dhanukalāpaṁ sannayhitvā, ubhatobyūḷhaṁ saṅgāmaṁ pakkhandanti usūsupi khippamānesu, sattīsupi khippamānāsu, asīsupi vijjotalantesu.

11.2

There they are struck with arrows and spears, and their heads are chopped off,

Te tattha usūhipi vijjhanti, sattiyāpi vijjhanti, asināpi sīsaṁ chindanti.

11.3

resulting in death and deadly pain.

Te tattha maraṇampi nigacchanti, maraṇamattampi dukkhaṁ.

11.4

This too is a drawback of sensual pleasures apparent in this very life, a mass of suffering caused by sensual pleasures.

Ayampi, mahānāma, kāmānaṁ ādīnavo sandiṭṭhiko dukkhakkhandho kāmahetu kāmanidānaṁ kāmādhikaraṇaṁ kāmānameva hetu.

12.1

Furthermore, for the sake of sensual pleasures they don their sword and shield, fasten their bow and arrows, and charge wetly plastered bastions, with arrows and spears flying and swords flashing.

Puna caparaṁ, mahānāma, kāmahetu kāmanidānaṁ kāmādhikaraṇaṁ kāmānameva hetu asicammaṁ gahetvā, dhanukalāpaṁ sannayhitvā, addāvalepanā upakāriyo pakkhandanti usūsupi khippamānesu, sattīsupi khippamānāsu, asīsupi vijjotalantesu.

12.2

There they are struck with arrows and spears, splashed with dung, crushed with spiked blocks, and their heads are chopped off,

Te tattha usūhipi vijjhanti, sattiyāpi vijjhanti, chakaṇakāyapi osiñcanti, abhivaggenapi omaddanti, asināpi sīsaṁ chindanti.

12.3

resulting in death and deadly pain.

Te tattha maraṇampi nigacchanti, maraṇamattampi dukkhaṁ.

12.4

This too is a drawback of sensual pleasures apparent in this very life, a mass of suffering caused by sensual pleasures.

Ayampi, mahānāma, kāmānaṁ ādīnavo sandiṭṭhiko dukkhakkhandho kāmahetu kāmanidānaṁ kāmādhikaraṇaṁ kāmānameva hetu.

13.1

Furthermore, for the sake of sensual pleasures they break into houses, plunder wealth, steal from isolated buildings, commit highway robbery, and commit adultery.

Puna caparaṁ, mahānāma, kāmahetu kāmanidānaṁ kāmādhikaraṇaṁ kāmānameva hetu sandhimpi chindanti, nillopampi haranti, ekāgārikampi karonti, paripanthepi tiṭṭhanti, paradārampi gacchanti.

13.2

The rulers would arrest them and subject them to various punishments—

Tamenaṁ rājāno gahetvā vividhā kammakāraṇā kārenti—

13.3

whipping, caning, and clubbing; cutting off hands or feet, or both; cutting off ears or nose, or both; the ‘porridge pot’, the ‘shell-shave’, the ‘demon’s mouth’, the ‘garland of fire’, the ‘burning hand’, the ‘grass blades’, the ‘bark dress’, the ‘antelope’, the ‘meat hook’, the ‘coins’, the ‘caustic pickle’, the ‘twisting bar’, the ‘straw mat’; being splashed with hot oil, being fed to the dogs, being impaled alive, and being beheaded.

kasāhipi tāḷenti, vettehipi tāḷenti, aḍḍhadaṇḍakehipi tāḷenti; hatthampi chindanti, pādampi chindanti, hatthapādampi chindanti, kaṇṇampi chindanti, nāsampi chindanti, kaṇṇanāsampi chindanti; bilaṅgathālikampi karonti, saṅkhamuṇḍikampi karonti, rāhumukhampi karonti, jotimālikampi karonti, hatthapajjotikampi karonti, erakavattikampi karonti, cīrakavāsikampi karonti, eṇeyyakampi karonti, baḷisamaṁsikampi karonti, kahāpaṇikampi karonti, khārāpatacchikampi karonti, palighaparivattikampi karonti, palālapīṭhakampi karonti, tattenapi telena osiñcanti, sunakhehipi khādāpenti, jīvantampi sūle uttāsenti, asināpi sīsaṁ chindanti.

13.4

These result in death and deadly pain.

Te tattha maraṇampi nigacchanti, maraṇamattampi dukkhaṁ.

13.5

This too is a drawback of sensual pleasures apparent in this very life, a mass of suffering caused by sensual pleasures.

Ayampi, mahānāma, kāmānaṁ ādīnavo sandiṭṭhiko dukkhakkhandho kāmahetu kāmanidānaṁ kāmādhikaraṇaṁ kāmānameva hetu.

14.1

Furthermore, for the sake of sensual pleasures, they conduct themselves badly by way of body, speech, and mind.

Puna caparaṁ, mahānāma, kāmahetu kāmanidānaṁ kāmādhikaraṇaṁ kāmānameva hetu kāyena duccaritaṁ caranti, vācāya duccaritaṁ caranti, manasā duccaritaṁ caranti.

14.2

When their body breaks up, after death, they’re reborn in a place of loss, a bad place, the underworld, hell.

Te kāyena duccaritaṁ caritvā, vācāya duccaritaṁ caritvā, manasā duccaritaṁ caritvā, kāyassa bhedā paraṁ maraṇā, apāyaṁ duggatiṁ vinipātaṁ nirayaṁ upapajjanti.

14.3

This is a drawback of sensual pleasures to do with lives to come, a mass of suffering caused by sensual pleasures.

Ayampi, mahānāma, kāmānaṁ ādīnavo samparāyiko, dukkhakkhandho kāmahetu kāmanidānaṁ kāmādhikaraṇaṁ kāmānameva hetu.

15.1

Mahānāma, this one time I was staying near Rājagaha, on the Vulture’s Peak Mountain.

Ekamidāhaṁ, mahānāma, samayaṁ rājagahe viharāmi gijjhakūṭe pabbate.

15.2

Now at that time several Jain ascetics on the slopes of Isigili at the Black Rock were constantly standing, refusing seats. And they felt painful, sharp, severe, acute feelings due to overexertion.

Tena kho pana samayena sambahulā nigaṇṭhā isigilipasse kāḷasilāyaṁ ubbhaṭṭhakā honti āsanapaṭikkhittā, opakkamikā dukkhā tibbā kharā kaṭukā vedanā vedayanti.

16.1

Then in the late afternoon, I came out of retreat and went to the Black Rock to visit those Jain ascetics. I said to them,

Atha khvāhaṁ, mahānāma, sāyanhasamayaṁ paṭisallānā vuṭṭhito yena isigilipasse kāḷasilā yena te nigaṇṭhā tenupasaṅkamiṁ; upasaṅkamitvā te nigaṇṭhe etadavocaṁ:

16.2

‘Reverends, why are you constantly standing, refusing seats, so that you suffer painful, sharp, severe, acute feelings due to overexertion?’

‘kiṁ nu tumhe, āvuso nigaṇṭhā, ubbhaṭṭhakā āsanapaṭikkhittā, opakkamikā dukkhā tibbā kharā kaṭukā vedanā vedayathā’ti?

17.1

When I said this, those Jain ascetics said to me,

Evaṁ vutte, mahānāma, te nigaṇṭhā maṁ etadavocuṁ:

17.2

‘Reverend, the Jain leader Nātaputta claims to be all-knowing and all-seeing, to know and see everything without exception, thus:

‘nigaṇṭho, āvuso, nāṭaputto sabbaññū sabbadassāvī aparisesaṁ ñāṇadassanaṁ paṭijānāti:

17.3

“Knowledge and vision are constantly and continually present to me, while walking, standing, sleeping, and waking.”

“carato ca me tiṭṭhato ca suttassa ca jāgarassa ca satataṁ samitaṁ ñāṇadassanaṁ paccupaṭṭhitan”ti.

17.4

He says,

So evamāha:

17.5

“O Jain ascetics, you have done bad deeds in a past life. Wear them away with these severe and grueling austerities.

“atthi kho vo, nigaṇṭhā, pubbe pāpakammaṁ kataṁ, taṁ imāya kaṭukāya dukkarakārikāya nijjīretha;

17.6

And when you refrain from such deeds in the present by way of body, speech, and mind, you’re not doing any bad deeds for the future.

yaṁ panettha etarahi kāyena saṁvutā vācāya saṁvutā manasā saṁvutā taṁ āyatiṁ pāpassa kammassa akaraṇaṁ;

17.7

So, due to eliminating past deeds by mortification, and not doing any new deeds, there’s nothing to come up in the future.

iti purāṇānaṁ kammānaṁ tapasā byantibhāvā, navānaṁ kammānaṁ akaraṇā, āyatiṁ anavassavo;

17.8

With nothing to come up in the future, deeds end. With the ending of deeds, suffering ends. With the ending of suffering, feeling ends. And with the ending of feeling, all suffering will have been worn away.”

āyatiṁ anavassavā kammakkhayo, kammakkhayā dukkhakkhayo, dukkhakkhayā vedanākkhayo, vedanākkhayā sabbaṁ dukkhaṁ nijjiṇṇaṁ bhavissatī”ti.

17.9

We like and accept this, and we are satisfied with it.’

Tañca panamhākaṁ ruccati ceva khamati ca, tena camha attamanā’ti.

18.1

When they said this, I said to them,

Evaṁ vutte, ahaṁ, mahānāma, te nigaṇṭhe etadavocaṁ:

18.2

‘But reverends, do you know

‘kiṁ pana tumhe, āvuso nigaṇṭhā, jānātha—

18.3

for sure that you existed in the past, and it is not the case that you didn’t exist?’

ahuvamheva mayaṁ pubbe na nāhuvamhā’ti?

18.4

‘No we don’t, reverend.’

‘No hidaṁ, āvuso’.

18.5

‘But reverends, do you know

‘Kiṁ pana tumhe, āvuso nigaṇṭhā, jānātha—

18.6

for sure that you did bad deeds in the past?’

akaramheva mayaṁ pubbe pāpakammaṁ na nākaramhā’ti?

18.7

‘No we don’t, reverend.’

‘No hidaṁ, āvuso’.

18.8

‘But reverends, do you know

‘Kiṁ pana tumhe, āvuso nigaṇṭhā, jānātha—

18.9

that you did such and such bad deeds?’

evarūpaṁ vā evarūpaṁ vā pāpakammaṁ akaramhā’ti?

18.10

‘No we don’t, reverend.’

‘No hidaṁ, āvuso’.

18.11

‘But reverends, do you know

‘Kiṁ pana tumhe, āvuso nigaṇṭhā, jānātha—

18.12

that so much suffering has already been worn away? Or that so much suffering still remains to be worn away? Or that when so much suffering is worn away all suffering will have been worn away?’

ettakaṁ vā dukkhaṁ nijjiṇṇaṁ, ettakaṁ vā dukkhaṁ nijjīretabbaṁ, ettakamhi vā dukkhe nijjiṇṇe sabbaṁ dukkhaṁ nijjiṇṇaṁ bhavissatī’ti?

18.13

‘No we don’t, reverend.’

‘No hidaṁ, āvuso’.

18.14

‘But reverends, do you know

‘Kiṁ pana tumhe, āvuso nigaṇṭhā, jānātha—

18.15

about giving up unskillful qualities in the present life and embracing skillful qualities?’

diṭṭheva dhamme akusalānaṁ dhammānaṁ pahānaṁ, kusalānaṁ dhammānaṁ upasampadan’ti?

18.16

‘No we don’t, reverend.’

‘No hidaṁ, āvuso’.

19.1

‘So it seems that you don’t know any of these things.

‘Iti kira tumhe, āvuso nigaṇṭhā, na jānātha—

19.2

ahuvamheva mayaṁ pubbe na nāhuvamhāti, na jānātha—

19.3

akaramheva mayaṁ pubbe pāpakammaṁ na nākaramhāti, na jānātha—

19.4

evarūpaṁ vā evarūpaṁ vā pāpakammaṁ akaramhāti, na jānātha—

19.5

ettakaṁ vā dukkhaṁ nijjiṇṇaṁ, ettakaṁ vā dukkhaṁ nijjīretabbaṁ, ettakamhi vā dukkhe nijjiṇṇe sabbaṁ dukkhaṁ nijjiṇṇaṁ bhavissatīti.

19.6

Na jānātha—

19.7

diṭṭheva dhamme akusalānaṁ dhammānaṁ pahānaṁ, kusalānaṁ dhammānaṁ upasampadaṁ.

19.8

That being so, when those in the world who are violent and bloody-handed and make their living by cruelty are reborn among humans they go forth as Jain ascetics.’

Evaṁ sante, āvuso nigaṇṭhā, ye loke luddā lohitapāṇino kurūrakammantā manussesu paccājātā te nigaṇṭhesu pabbajantī’ti?

20.1

‘Reverend Gotama, pleasure is not gained through pleasure; pleasure is gained through pain.

‘Na kho, āvuso gotama, sukhena sukhaṁ adhigantabbaṁ, dukkhena kho sukhaṁ adhigantabbaṁ;

20.2

For if pleasure were to be gained through pleasure, King Seniya Bimbisāra of Māgadha would gain pleasure, since he lives in greater pleasure than Venerable Gotama.’

sukhena cāvuso gotama, sukhaṁ adhigantabbaṁ abhavissa, rājā māgadho seniyo bimbisāro sukhaṁ adhigaccheyya, rājā māgadho seniyo bimbisāro sukhavihāritaro āyasmatā gotamenā’ti.

20.3

‘Clearly the venerables have spoken rashly, without reflection.

‘Addhāyasmantehi nigaṇṭhehi sahasā appaṭisaṅkhā vācā bhāsitā:

20.4

“na kho, āvuso gotama, sukhena sukhaṁ adhigantabbaṁ, dukkhena kho sukhaṁ adhigantabbaṁ;

20.5

sukhena cāvuso gotama, sukhaṁ adhigantabbaṁ abhavissa, rājā māgadho seniyo bimbisāro sukhaṁ adhigaccheyya, rājā māgadho seniyo bimbisāro sukhavihāritaro āyasmatā gotamenā”ti.

20.6

Rather, I’m the one who should be asked about

Api ca ahameva tattha paṭipucchitabbo:

20.7

who lives in greater pleasure, King Bimbisāra or Venerable Gotama?’

“ko nu kho āyasmantānaṁ sukhavihāritaro rājā vā māgadho seniyo bimbisāro āyasmā vā gotamo”ti?

20.8

‘Clearly we spoke rashly and without reflection.

Addhāvuso gotama, amhehi sahasā appaṭisaṅkhā vācā bhāsitā, na kho, āvuso gotama, sukhena sukhaṁ adhigantabbaṁ, dukkhena kho sukhaṁ adhigantabbaṁ;

20.9

sukhena cāvuso gotama, sukhaṁ adhigantabbaṁ abhavissa, rājā māgadho seniyo bimbisāro sukhaṁ adhigaccheyya, rājā māgadho seniyo bimbisāro sukhavihāritaro āyasmatā gotamenāti.

20.10

But forget about that. Now we ask Venerable Gotama:

Api ca tiṭṭhatetaṁ, idānipi mayaṁ āyasmantaṁ gotamaṁ pucchāma:

20.11

“Who lives in greater pleasure, King Bimbisāra or Venerable Gotama?”'

“ko nu kho āyasmantānaṁ sukhavihāritaro rājā vā māgadho seniyo bimbisāro āyasmā vā gotamo”ti?

21.1

‘Well then, reverends, I’ll ask you about this in return, and you can answer as you like.

Tena hāvuso nigaṇṭhā, tumheva tattha paṭipucchissāmi, yathā vo khameyya tathā naṁ byākareyyātha.

21.2

What do you think, reverends?

Taṁ kiṁ maññathāvuso nigaṇṭhā, pahoti rājā māgadho seniyo bimbisāro,

21.3 [Nirodha Samāpatti implied]

Is King Bimbisāra capable of experiencing perfect happiness for seven days and nights without moving his body or speaking?’

aniñjamāno kāyena, abhāsamāno vācaṁ, satta rattindivāni ekantasukhaṁ paṭisaṁvedī viharitun’ti?

21.4

‘No he is not, reverend.’

‘No hidaṁ, āvuso’.

21.5

‘What do you think, reverends?

‘Taṁ kiṁ maññathāvuso nigaṇṭhā, pahoti rājā māgadho seniyo bimbisāro,

21.6

Is King Bimbisāra capable of experiencing perfect happiness for six days …

aniñjamāno kāyena, abhāsamāno vācaṁ, cha rattindivāni …pe…

21.7

five days …

pañca rattindivāni …

21.8

four days …

cattāri rattindivāni …

21.9

three days …

tīṇi rattindivāni …

21.10

two days …

dve rattindivāni …

21.11

one day?’

ekaṁ rattindivaṁ ekantasukhaṁ paṭisaṁvedī viharitun’ti?

21.12

‘No he is not, reverend.’

‘No hidaṁ, āvuso’.

21.13

‘But I am capable of experiencing perfect happiness for one day and night without moving my body or speaking.

‘Ahaṁ kho, āvuso nigaṇṭhā, pahomi aniñjamāno kāyena, abhāsamāno vācaṁ, ekaṁ rattindivaṁ ekantasukhaṁ paṭisaṁvedī viharituṁ.

21.14

I am capable of experiencing perfect happiness for two days …

Ahaṁ kho, āvuso nigaṇṭhā, pahomi aniñjamāno kāyena, abhāsamāno vācaṁ, dve rattindivāni …

21.15

three days …

tīṇi rattindivāni …

21.16

four days …

cattāri rattindivāni …

21.17

five days …

pañca rattindivāni …

21.18

six days …

cha rattindivāni …

21.19

seven days.

satta rattindivāni ekantasukhaṁ paṭisaṁvedī viharituṁ.

21.20

What do you think, reverends? This being so, who lives in greater pleasure, King Bimbisāra or I?’

Taṁ kiṁ maññathāvuso nigaṇṭhā, evaṁ sante ko sukhavihāritaro rājā vā māgadho seniyo bimbisāro ahaṁ vā’ti?

21.21

‘This being so, Venerable Gotama lives in greater pleasure than King Bimbisāra.’”

‘Evaṁ sante āyasmāva gotamo sukhavihāritaro raññā māgadhena seniyena bimbisārenā’”ti.

21.22

That is what the Buddha said.

Idamavoca bhagavā.

21.23

Satisfied, Mahānāma the Sakyan was happy with what the Buddha said.

Attamano mahānāmo sakko bhagavato bhāsitaṁ abhinandīti.

21.24

Cūḷadukkhakkhandhasuttaṁ niṭṭhitaṁ catutthaṁ.