The Chapter on the Entire Spectrum Of Ethics – Sīlakkhandhavagga DN 1–13 > DN 9 With Poṭṭhapāda

Long Discourses 9 – Dīgha Nikāya 9

DN 9 With Poṭṭhapāda – Poṭṭhapādasutta

[Summary]

1. On the Wanderer Poṭṭhapāda

1. Poṭṭhapādaparibbājakavatthu

So I have heard.

Evaṁ me sutaṁ—

At one time the Buddha was staying near Sāvatthī in Jeta’s Grove, Anāthapiṇḍika’s monastery.

ekaṁ samayaṁ bhagavā sāvatthiyaṁ viharati jetavane anāthapiṇḍikassa ārāme.

Now at that time the wanderer Poṭṭhapāda was residing together with three hundred wanderers in Mallikā’s single-halled monastery for group debates, set among the flaking pale-moon ebony trees.

Tena kho pana samayena poṭṭhapādo paribbājako samayappavādake tindukācīre ekasālake mallikāya ārāme paṭivasati mahatiyā paribbājakaparisāya saddhiṁ tiṁsamattehi paribbājakasatehi.

Then the Buddha robed up in the morning and, taking his bowl and robe, entered Sāvatthī for alms.

Atha kho bhagavā pubbaṇhasamayaṁ nivāsetvā pattacīvaramādāya sāvatthiṁ piṇḍāya pāvisi.

Then it occurred to him,

Atha kho bhagavato etadahosi:

“It’s too early to wander for alms in Sāvatthī.

“atippago kho tāva sāvatthiyaṁ piṇḍāya carituṁ.

Why don’t I go to Mallikā’s monastery to visit the wanderer Poṭṭhapāda?”

Yannūnāhaṁ yena samayappavādako tindukācīro ekasālako mallikāya ārāmo, yena poṭṭhapādo paribbājako tenupasaṅkameyyan”ti.

So that’s what he did.

Atha kho bhagavā yena samayappavādako tindukācīro ekasālako mallikāya ārāmo tenupasaṅkami.

Now at that time, Poṭṭhapāda was sitting together with a large assembly of wanderers making an uproar, a dreadful racket. They engaged in all kinds of unworthy talk, such as

Tena kho pana samayena poṭṭhapādo paribbājako mahatiyā paribbājakaparisāya saddhiṁ nisinno hoti unnādiniyā uccāsaddamahāsaddāya anekavihitaṁ tiracchānakathaṁ kathentiyā.

talk about kings, bandits, and ministers; talk about armies, threats, and wars; talk about food, drink, clothes, and beds; talk about garlands and fragrances; talk about family, vehicles, villages, towns, cities, and countries; talk about women and heroes; street talk and well talk; talk about the departed; motley talk; tales of land and sea; and talk about being reborn in this or that state of existence.

Seyyathidaṁ—rājakathaṁ corakathaṁ mahāmattakathaṁ senākathaṁ bhayakathaṁ yuddhakathaṁ annakathaṁ pānakathaṁ vatthakathaṁ sayanakathaṁ mālākathaṁ gandhakathaṁ ñātikathaṁ yānakathaṁ gāmakathaṁ nigamakathaṁ nagarakathaṁ janapadakathaṁ itthikathaṁ sūrakathaṁ visikhākathaṁ kumbhaṭṭhānakathaṁ pubbapetakathaṁ nānattakathaṁ lokakkhāyikaṁ samuddakkhāyikaṁ itibhavābhavakathaṁ iti vā.

Poṭṭhapāda saw the Buddha coming off in the distance,

Addasā kho poṭṭhapādo paribbājako bhagavantaṁ dūratova āgacchantaṁ;

and hushed his own assembly,

disvāna sakaṁ parisaṁ saṇṭhapesi:

“Be quiet, good sirs, don’t make a sound.

“appasaddā bhonto hontu, mā bhonto saddamakattha.

Here comes the ascetic Gotama.

Ayaṁ samaṇo gotamo āgacchati.

The venerable likes quiet and praises quiet.

Appasaddakāmo kho so āyasmā appasaddassa vaṇṇavādī.

Hopefully if he sees that our assembly is quiet he’ll see fit to approach.”

Appeva nāma appasaddaṁ parisaṁ viditvā upasaṅkamitabbaṁ maññeyyā”ti.

Then those wanderers fell silent.

Evaṁ vutte, te paribbājakā tuṇhī ahesuṁ.

Then the Buddha approached Poṭṭhapāda,

Atha kho bhagavā yena poṭṭhapādo paribbājako tenupasaṅkami.

who said to him,

Atha kho poṭṭhapādo paribbājako bhagavantaṁ etadavoca:

“Come, Blessed One!

“etu kho, bhante, bhagavā.

Welcome, Blessed One!

Svāgataṁ, bhante, bhagavato.

It’s been a long time since you took the opportunity to come here.

Cirassaṁ kho, bhante, bhagavā imaṁ pariyāyamakāsi, yadidaṁ idhāgamanāya.

Please, sir, sit down, this seat is ready.”

Nisīdatu, bhante, bhagavā, idaṁ āsanaṁ paññattan”ti.

The Buddha sat on the seat spread out,

Nisīdi bhagavā paññatte āsane.

while Poṭṭhapāda took a low seat and sat to one side.

Poṭṭhapādopi kho paribbājako aññataraṁ nīcaṁ āsanaṁ gahetvā ekamantaṁ nisīdi.

The Buddha said to him,

Ekamantaṁ nisinnaṁ kho poṭṭhapādaṁ paribbājakaṁ bhagavā etadavoca:

“Poṭṭhapāda, what were you sitting talking about just now? What conversation was left unfinished?”

“kāya nuttha, poṭṭhapāda, etarahi kathāya sannisinnā, kā ca pana vo antarākathā vippakatā”ti?

1.1. On the Cessation of Perception

1.1. Abhisaññānirodhakathā

When he said this, the wanderer Poṭṭhapāda said to the Buddha,

Evaṁ vutte, poṭṭhapādo paribbājako bhagavantaṁ etadavoca:

“Sir, leave aside what we were sitting talking about just now.

“tiṭṭhatesā, bhante, kathā, yāya mayaṁ etarahi kathāya sannisinnā.

It won’t be hard for you to hear about that later.

Nesā, bhante, kathā bhagavato dullabhā bhavissati pacchāpi savanāya.

Sir, a few days ago several ascetics and brahmins who follow various other paths were sitting together at the debating hall, and this discussion came up among them:

Purimāni, bhante, divasāni purimatarāni, nānātitthiyānaṁ samaṇabrāhmaṇānaṁ kotūhalasālāya sannisinnānaṁ sannipatitānaṁ abhisaññānirodhe kathā udapādi:

‘How does the cessation of perception happen?’

‘kathaṁ nu kho, bho, abhisaññānirodho hotī’ti?

Some of them said:

Tatrekacce evamāhaṁsu:

‘A person’s perceptions arise and cease without cause or reason.

‘ahetū appaccayā purisassa saññā uppajjantipi nirujjhantipi.

When they arise, you become percipient.

Yasmiṁ samaye uppajjanti, saññī tasmiṁ samaye hoti.

When they cease, you become non-percipient.’

Yasmiṁ samaye nirujjhanti, asaññī tasmiṁ samaye hotī’ti.

That’s how some describe the cessation of perception.

Ittheke abhisaññānirodhaṁ paññapenti.

But someone else says:

Tamañño evamāha:

‘That’s not how it is, gentlemen !

‘na kho pana metaṁ, bho, evaṁ bhavissati.

Perception is a person’s self,

Saññā hi, bho, purisassa attā.

Sā ca kho upetipi apetipi.

When it enters, you become percipient.

Yasmiṁ samaye upeti, saññī tasmiṁ samaye hoti.

When it departs, you become non-percipient.’

Yasmiṁ samaye apeti, asaññī tasmiṁ samaye hotī’ti.

That’s how some describe the cessation of perception.

Ittheke abhisaññānirodhaṁ paññapenti.

But someone else says:

Tamañño evamāha:

‘That’s not how it is, gentlemen !

‘na kho pana metaṁ, bho, evaṁ bhavissati.

There are ascetics and brahmins of great power and might.

Santi hi, bho, samaṇabrāhmaṇā mahiddhikā mahānubhāvā.

They insert and extract a person’s perception.

Te imassa purisassa saññaṁ upakaḍḍhantipi apakaḍḍhantipi.

When they insert it, you become percipient.

Yasmiṁ samaye upakaḍḍhanti, saññī tasmiṁ samaye hoti.

When they extract it, you become non-percipient.’

Yasmiṁ samaye apakaḍḍhanti, asaññī tasmiṁ samaye hotī’ti.

That’s how some describe the cessation of perception.

Ittheke abhisaññānirodhaṁ paññapenti.

But someone else says:

Tamañño evamāha:

‘That’s not how it is, gentlemen !

‘na kho pana metaṁ, bho, evaṁ bhavissati.

There are deities of great power and might.

Santi hi, bho, devatā mahiddhikā mahānubhāvā.

They insert and extract a person’s perception.

Tā imassa purisassa saññaṁ upakaḍḍhantipi apakaḍḍhantipi.

When they insert it, you become percipient.

Yasmiṁ samaye upakaḍḍhanti, saññī tasmiṁ samaye hoti.

When they extract it, you become non-percipient.’

Yasmiṁ samaye apakaḍḍhanti, asaññī tasmiṁ samaye hotī’ti.

That’s how some describe the cessation of perception.

Ittheke abhisaññānirodhaṁ paññapenti.

That reminded me of the Buddha:

Tassa mayhaṁ, bhante, bhagavantaṁyeva ārabbha sati udapādi:

‘Surely it must be the Blessed One, the Holy One who is so skilled in such matters.’

‘aho nūna bhagavā, aho nūna sugato, yo imesaṁ dhammānaṁ sukusalo’ti.

The Buddha is skilled and well-versed in the cessation of perception.

Bhagavā, bhante, kusalo, bhagavā pakataññū abhisaññānirodhassa.

How does the cessation of perception happen?”

Kathaṁ nu kho, bhante, abhisaññānirodho hotī”ti?

1.2. Perception Arises With a Cause

1.2. Sahetukasaññuppādanirodhakathā

“Regarding this, Poṭṭhapāda, those ascetics and brahmins who say that

“Tatra, poṭṭhapāda, ye te samaṇabrāhmaṇā evamāhaṁsu:

a person’s perceptions arise and cease without cause or reason are wrong from the start.

‘ahetū appaccayā purisassa saññā uppajjantipi nirujjhantipī’ti, āditova tesaṁ aparaddhaṁ.

Why is that?

Taṁ kissa hetu?

Because a person’s perceptions arise and cease with cause and reason.

Sahetū hi, poṭṭhapāda, sappaccayā purisassa saññā uppajjantipi nirujjhantipi.

With training, certain perceptions arise and certain perceptions cease.

Sikkhā ekā saññā uppajjati, sikkhā ekā saññā nirujjhati.

And what is that training?” said the Buddha.

Kā ca sikkhā”ti? Bhagavā avoca.

“It’s when a Realized One arises in the world, perfected, a fully awakened Buddha …

“Idha, poṭṭhapāda, tathāgato loke uppajjati arahaṁ, sammāsambuddho …pe…

That’s how a bhikkhu is accomplished in ethics. …

Evaṁ kho, poṭṭhapāda, bhikkhu sīlasampanno hoti …pe…

Seeing that the hindrances have been given up in them, joy springs up. Being joyful, rapture springs up. When the mind is full of rapture, the body becomes tranquil. When the body is tranquil, they feel bliss. And when blissful, the mind becomes immersed.

tassime pañcanīvaraṇe pahīne attani samanupassato pāmojjaṁ jāyati, pamuditassa pīti jāyati, pītimanassa kāyo passambhati, passaddhakāyo sukhaṁ vedeti, sukhino cittaṁ samādhiyati.

Quite secluded from sensual pleasures, secluded from unskillful qualities, they enter and remain in the first absorption, which has the rapture and bliss born of seclusion, while placing the mind and keeping it connected.

So vivicceva kāmehi, vivicca akusalehi dhammehi, savitakkaṁ savicāraṁ vivekajaṁ pītisukhaṁ paṭhamaṁ jhānaṁ upasampajja viharati.

The sensual perception that they had previously ceases.

Tassa yā purimā kāmasaññā, sā nirujjhati.

At that time they have a subtle and true perception of the rapture and bliss born of seclusion.

Vivekajapītisukhasukhumasaccasaññā tasmiṁ samaye hoti, vivekajapītisukhasukhumasaccasaññīyeva tasmiṁ samaye hoti.

That’s how, with training, certain perceptions arise and certain perceptions cease.

Evampi sikkhā ekā saññā uppajjati, sikkhā ekā saññā nirujjhati.

And this is that training,” said the Buddha.

Ayaṁ sikkhā”ti bhagavā avoca.

“Furthermore, as the placing of the mind and keeping it connected are stilled, a bhikkhu enters and remains in the second absorption, which has the rapture and bliss born of samādhi, with internal clarity and confidence, and unified mind, without placing the mind and keeping it connected.

“Puna caparaṁ, poṭṭhapāda, bhikkhu vitakkavicārānaṁ vūpasamā ajjhattaṁ sampasādanaṁ cetaso ekodibhāvaṁ avitakkaṁ avicāraṁ samādhijaṁ pītisukhaṁ dutiyaṁ jhānaṁ upasampajja viharati.

The subtle and true perception of the rapture and bliss born of seclusion that they had previously ceases.

Tassa yā purimā vivekajapītisukhasukhumasaccasaññā, sā nirujjhati.

At that time they have a subtle and true perception of the rapture and bliss born of samādhi.

Samādhijapītisukhasukhumasaccasaññā tasmiṁ samaye hoti, samādhijapītisukhasukhumasaccasaññīyeva tasmiṁ samaye hoti.

That’s how, with training, certain perceptions arise and certain perceptions cease.

Evampi sikkhā ekā saññā uppajjati, sikkhā ekā saññā nirujjhati.

And this is that training,” said the Buddha.

Ayampi sikkhā”ti bhagavā avoca.

“Furthermore, with the fading away of rapture, a bhikkhu enters and remains in the third absorption, where they meditate with equanimity, mindful and aware, personally experiencing the bliss of which the noble ones declare, ‘Equanimous and mindful, one meditates in bliss.’

“Puna caparaṁ, poṭṭhapāda, bhikkhu pītiyā ca virāgā upekkhako ca viharati sato ca sampajāno, sukhañca kāyena paṭisaṁvedeti, yaṁ taṁ ariyā ācikkhanti: ‘upekkhako satimā sukhavihārī’ti, tatiyaṁ jhānaṁ upasampajja viharati.

The subtle and true perception of the rapture and bliss born of samādhi that they had previously ceases.

Tassa yā purimā samādhijapītisukhasukhumasaccasaññā, sā nirujjhati.

At that time they have a subtle and true perception of equanimous bliss.

Upekkhāsukhasukhumasaccasaññā tasmiṁ samaye hoti, upekkhāsukhasukhumasaccasaññīyeva tasmiṁ samaye hoti.

That’s how, with training, certain perceptions arise and certain perceptions cease.

Evampi sikkhā ekā saññā uppajjati, sikkhā ekā saññā nirujjhati.

And this is that training,” said the Buddha.

Ayampi sikkhā”ti bhagavā avoca.

“Furthermore, giving up pleasure and pain, and ending former happiness and sadness, a bhikkhu enters and remains in the fourth absorption, without pleasure or pain, with pure equanimity and mindfulness.

“Puna caparaṁ, poṭṭhapāda, bhikkhu sukhassa ca pahānā dukkhassa ca pahānā pubbeva somanassadomanassānaṁ atthaṅgamā adukkhamasukhaṁ upekkhāsatipārisuddhiṁ catutthaṁ jhānaṁ upasampajja viharati.

The subtle and true perception of equanimous bliss that they had previously ceases.

Tassa yā purimā upekkhāsukhasukhumasaccasaññā, sā nirujjhati.

At that time they have a subtle and true perception of neutral feeling.

Adukkhamasukhasukhumasaccasaññā tasmiṁ samaye hoti, adukkhamasukhasukhumasaccasaññīyeva tasmiṁ samaye hoti.

That’s how, with training, certain perceptions arise and certain perceptions cease.

Evampi sikkhā ekā saññā uppajjati, sikkhā ekā saññā nirujjhati.

And this is that training,” said the Buddha.

Ayampi sikkhā”ti bhagavā avoca.

“Furthermore, a bhikkhu, going totally beyond perceptions of form, with the ending of perceptions of impingement, not focusing on perceptions of diversity, aware that ‘space is infinite’, enters and remains in the dimension of infinite space.

“Puna caparaṁ, poṭṭhapāda, bhikkhu sabbaso rūpasaññānaṁ samatikkamā paṭighasaññānaṁ atthaṅgamā nānattasaññānaṁ amanasikārā ‘ananto ākāso’ti ākāsānañcāyatanaṁ upasampajja viharati.

The perception of luminous form that they had previously ceases.

Tassa yā purimā rūpasaññā, sā nirujjhati.

At that time they have a subtle and true perception of the dimension of infinite space.

Ākāsānañcāyatanasukhumasaccasaññā tasmiṁ samaye hoti, ākāsānañcāyatanasukhumasaccasaññīyeva tasmiṁ samaye hoti.

That’s how, with training, certain perceptions arise and certain perceptions cease.

Evampi sikkhā ekā saññā uppajjati, sikkhā ekā saññā nirujjhati.

And this is that training,” said the Buddha.

Ayampi sikkhā”ti bhagavā avoca.

“Furthermore, a bhikkhu, going totally beyond the dimension of infinite space, aware that ‘consciousness is infinite’, enters and remains in the dimension of infinite consciousness.

“Puna caparaṁ, poṭṭhapāda, bhikkhu sabbaso ākāsānañcāyatanaṁ samatikkamma ‘anantaṁ viññāṇan’ti viññāṇañcāyatanaṁ upasampajja viharati.

The subtle and true perception of the dimension of infinite space that they had previously ceases.

Tassa yā purimā ākāsānañcāyatanasukhumasaccasaññā, sā nirujjhati.

At that time they have a subtle and true perception of the dimension of infinite consciousness.

Viññāṇañcāyatanasukhumasaccasaññā tasmiṁ samaye hoti, viññāṇañcāyatanasukhumasaccasaññīyeva tasmiṁ samaye hoti.

That’s how, with training, certain perceptions arise and certain perceptions cease.

Evampi sikkhā ekā saññā uppajjati, sikkhā ekā saññā nirujjhati.

And this is that training,” said the Buddha.

Ayampi sikkhā”ti bhagavā avoca.

“Furthermore, a bhikkhu, going totally beyond the dimension of infinite consciousness, aware that ‘there is nothing at all’, enters and remains in the dimension of nothingness.

“Puna caparaṁ, poṭṭhapāda, bhikkhu sabbaso viññāṇañcāyatanaṁ samatikkamma ‘natthi kiñcī’ti ākiñcaññāyatanaṁ upasampajja viharati.

The subtle and true perception of the dimension of infinite consciousness that they had previously ceases.

Tassa yā purimā viññāṇañcāyatanasukhumasaccasaññā, sā nirujjhati.

At that time they have a subtle and true perception of the dimension of nothingness.

Ākiñcaññāyatanasukhumasaccasaññā tasmiṁ samaye hoti, ākiñcaññāyatanasukhumasaccasaññīyeva tasmiṁ samaye hoti.

That’s how, with training, certain perceptions arise and certain perceptions cease.

Evampi sikkhā ekā saññā uppajjati, sikkhā ekā saññā nirujjhati.

And this is that training,” said the Buddha.

Ayampi sikkhā”ti bhagavā avoca.

“Poṭṭhapāda, from the time a bhikkhu here takes responsibility for their own perception, they proceed from one stage to the next, gradually reaching the peak of perception.

“Yato kho, poṭṭhapāda, bhikkhu idha sakasaññī hoti, so tato amutra tato amutra anupubbena saññaggaṁ phusati.

Standing on the peak of perception they think,

Tassa saññagge ṭhitassa evaṁ hoti:

‘Intentionality is bad for me, it’s better to be free of it.

‘cetayamānassa me pāpiyo, acetayamānassa me seyyo.

For if I were to intend and choose, these perceptions would cease in me, and other coarser perceptions would arise.

Ahañceva kho pana ceteyyaṁ, abhisaṅkhareyyaṁ, imā ca me saññā nirujjheyyuṁ, aññā ca oḷārikā saññā uppajjeyyuṁ;

Why don’t I neither make a choice nor form an intention?’

yannūnāhaṁ na ceva ceteyyaṁ na ca abhisaṅkhareyyan’ti.

They neither make a choice nor form an intention.

So na ceva ceteti, na ca abhisaṅkharoti.

Those perceptions cease in them, and other coarser perceptions don’t arise.

Tassa acetayato anabhisaṅkharoto tā ceva saññā nirujjhanti, aññā ca oḷārikā saññā na uppajjanti.

They touch cessation.

So nirodhaṁ phusati.

And that, Poṭṭhapāda, is how the gradual cessation of perception is attained with awareness.

Evaṁ kho, poṭṭhapāda, anupubbābhisaññānirodhasampajānasamāpatti hoti.

What do you think, Poṭṭhapāda?

Taṁ kiṁ maññasi, poṭṭhapāda,

Have you ever heard of this before?”

api nu te ito pubbe evarūpā anupubbābhisaññānirodhasampajānasamāpatti sutapubbā”ti?

“No, sir.

“No hetaṁ, bhante.

This is how I understand what the Buddha said:

Evaṁ kho ahaṁ, bhante, bhagavato bhāsitaṁ ājānāmi:

‘From the time a bhikkhu here takes responsibility for their own perception, they proceed from one stage to the next, gradually reaching the peak of perception.

‘yato kho, poṭṭhapāda, bhikkhu idha sakasaññī hoti, so tato amutra tato amutra anupubbena saññaggaṁ phusati,

Standing on the peak of perception they think,

tassa saññagge ṭhitassa evaṁ hoti:

“Intentionality is bad for me, it’s better to be free of it.

“cetayamānassa me pāpiyo, acetayamānassa me seyyo.

For if I were to intend and choose, these perceptions would cease in me, and other coarser perceptions would arise.

Ahañceva kho pana ceteyyaṁ abhisaṅkhareyyaṁ, imā ca me saññā nirujjheyyuṁ, aññā ca oḷārikā saññā uppajjeyyuṁ;

Why don’t I neither make a choice nor form an intention?”

yannūnāhaṁ na ceva ceteyyaṁ, na ca abhisaṅkhareyyan”ti.

Those perceptions cease in them, and other coarser perceptions don’t arise.

So na ceva ceteti, na cābhisaṅkharoti, tassa acetayato anabhisaṅkharoto tā ceva saññā nirujjhanti, aññā ca oḷārikā saññā na uppajjanti.

They touch cessation.

So nirodhaṁ phusati.

And that is how the gradual cessation of perception is attained with awareness.’”

Evaṁ kho, poṭṭhapāda, anupubbābhisaññānirodhasampajānasamāpatti hotī’”ti.

“That’s right, Poṭṭhapāda.”

“Evaṁ, poṭṭhapādā”ti.

“Does the Buddha describe just one peak of perception, or many?”

“Ekaññeva nu kho, bhante, bhagavā saññaggaṁ paññapeti, udāhu puthūpi saññagge paññapetī”ti?

“I describe the peak of perception as both one and many.”

“Ekampi kho ahaṁ, poṭṭhapāda, saññaggaṁ paññapemi, puthūpi saññagge paññapemī”ti.

“But sir, how do you describe it as one peak and as many?”

“Yathā kathaṁ pana, bhante, bhagavā ekampi saññaggaṁ paññapeti, puthūpi saññagge paññapetī”ti?

“I describe the peak of perception according to the specific manner in which one touches cessation.

“Yathā yathā kho, poṭṭhapāda, nirodhaṁ phusati tathā tathāhaṁ saññaggaṁ paññapemi.

That’s how I describe the peak of perception as both one and many.”

Evaṁ kho ahaṁ, poṭṭhapāda, ekampi saññaggaṁ paññapemi, puthūpi saññagge paññapemī”ti.

“But sir, does perception arise first and knowledge afterwards? Or does knowledge arise first and perception afterwards? Or do they both arise at the same time?”

“Saññā nu kho, bhante, paṭhamaṁ uppajjati, pacchā ñāṇaṁ, udāhu ñāṇaṁ paṭhamaṁ uppajjati, pacchā saññā, udāhu saññā ca ñāṇañca apubbaṁ acarimaṁ uppajjantī”ti?

“Perception arises first and knowledge afterwards. The arising of perception leads to the arising of knowledge.

“Saññā kho, poṭṭhapāda, paṭhamaṁ uppajjati, pacchā ñāṇaṁ, saññuppādā ca pana ñāṇuppādo hoti.

They understand,

So evaṁ pajānāti:

‘My knowledge arose from a specific condition.’

‘idappaccayā kira me ñāṇaṁ udapādī’ti.

That is a way to understand how

Iminā kho etaṁ, poṭṭhapāda, pariyāyena veditabbaṁ—

perception arises first and knowledge afterwards; that the arising of perception leads to the arising of knowledge.”

yathā saññā paṭhamaṁ uppajjati, pacchā ñāṇaṁ, saññuppādā ca pana ñāṇuppādo hotī”ti.

1.3. Perception and the Self

1.3. Saññāattakathā

“Sir, is perception a person’s self, or are perception and self different things?”

“Saññā nu kho, bhante, purisassa attā, udāhu aññā saññā añño attā”ti?

“But Poṭṭhapāda, do you believe in a self?”

“Kaṁ pana tvaṁ, poṭṭhapāda, attānaṁ paccesī”ti?

“I believe in a substantial self, sir, which is physical, made up of the four primary elements, and consumes solid food.”

“Oḷārikaṁ kho ahaṁ, bhante, attānaṁ paccemi rūpiṁ cātumahābhūtikaṁ kabaḷīkārāhārabhakkhan”ti.

“Suppose there were such a substantial self, Poṭṭhapāda. In that case, perception would be one thing, the self another.

“Oḷāriko ca hi te, poṭṭhapāda, attā abhavissa rūpī cātumahābhūtiko kabaḷīkārāhārabhakkho. Evaṁ santaṁ kho te, poṭṭhapāda, aññāva saññā bhavissati añño attā.

Here is another way to understand how perception and self are different things.

Tadamināpetaṁ, poṭṭhapāda, pariyāyena veditabbaṁ yathā aññāva saññā bhavissati añño attā.

So long as that substantial self remains, still some perceptions arise in a person and others cease.

Tiṭṭhateva sāyaṁ, poṭṭhapāda, oḷāriko attā rūpī cātumahābhūtiko kabaḷīkārāhārabhakkho, atha imassa purisassa aññā ca saññā uppajjanti, aññā ca saññā nirujjhanti.

That is a way to understand how perception and self are different things.”

Iminā kho etaṁ, poṭṭhapāda, pariyāyena veditabbaṁ yathā aññāva saññā bhavissati añño attā”ti.

“Sir, I believe in a mind-made self which is complete in all its various parts, not deficient in any faculty.”

“Manomayaṁ kho ahaṁ, bhante, attānaṁ paccemi sabbaṅgapaccaṅgiṁ ahīnindriyan”ti.

“Suppose there were such a mind-made self, Poṭṭhapāda. In that case, perception would be one thing, the self another.

“Manomayo ca hi te, poṭṭhapāda, attā abhavissa sabbaṅgapaccaṅgī ahīnindriyo, evaṁ santampi kho te, poṭṭhapāda, aññāva saññā bhavissati añño attā.

Here is another way to understand how perception and self are different things.

Tadamināpetaṁ, poṭṭhapāda, pariyāyena veditabbaṁ yathā aññāva saññā bhavissati añño attā.

So long as that mind-made self remains, still some perceptions arise in a person and others cease.

Tiṭṭhateva sāyaṁ, poṭṭhapāda, manomayo attā sabbaṅgapaccaṅgī ahīnindriyo, atha imassa purisassa aññā ca saññā uppajjanti, aññā ca saññā nirujjhanti.

That too is a way to understand how perception and self are different things.”

Imināpi kho etaṁ, poṭṭhapāda, pariyāyena veditabbaṁ yathā aññāva saññā bhavissati añño attā”ti.

“Sir, I believe in a non-physical self which is made of perception.”

“Arūpiṁ kho ahaṁ, bhante, attānaṁ paccemi saññāmayan”ti.

“Suppose there were such a non-physical self, Poṭṭhapāda. In that case, perception would be one thing, the self another.

“Arūpī ca hi te, poṭṭhapāda, attā abhavissa saññāmayo, evaṁ santampi kho te, poṭṭhapāda, aññāva saññā bhavissati añño attā.

Here is another way to understand how perception and self are different things.

Tadamināpetaṁ, poṭṭhapāda, pariyāyena veditabbaṁ yathā aññāva saññā bhavissati añño attā.

So long as that non-physical self remains, still some perceptions arise in a person and others cease.

Tiṭṭhateva sāyaṁ, poṭṭhapāda, arūpī attā saññāmayo, atha imassa purisassa aññā ca saññā uppajjanti, aññā ca saññā nirujjhanti.

That too is a way to understand how perception and self are different things.”

Imināpi kho etaṁ, poṭṭhapāda, pariyāyena veditabbaṁ yathā aññāva saññā bhavissati añño attā”ti.

“But, sir, am I able to know whether

“Sakkā panetaṁ, bhante, mayā ñātuṁ:

perception is a person’s self, or whether perception and self are different things?”

‘saññā purisassa attā’ti vā ‘aññāva saññā añño attā’ti vā”ti?

“It’s hard for you to understand this, since you have a different view, creed, preference, practice, and tradition.”

“Dujjānaṁ kho etaṁ, poṭṭhapāda, tayā aññadiṭṭhikena aññakhantikena aññarucikena aññatrāyogena aññatrācariyakena:

‘saññā purisassa attā’ti vā, ‘aññāva saññā añño attāti’ vā”ti.

“Well, if that’s the case, sir,

“Sacetaṁ, bhante, mayā dujjānaṁ aññadiṭṭhikena aññakhantikena aññarucikena aññatrāyogena aññatrācariyakena:

‘saññā purisassa attā’ti vā, ‘aññāva saññā añño attā’ti vā;

then is this right: ‘The cosmos is eternal. This is the only truth, anything else is wrong’?”

kiṁ pana, bhante, ‘sassato loko, idameva saccaṁ moghamaññan’”ti?

“This has not been declared by me, Poṭṭhapāda.”

“Abyākataṁ kho etaṁ, poṭṭhapāda, mayā:

‘sassato loko, idameva saccaṁ moghamaññan’”ti.

“Then is this right: ‘The cosmos is not eternal. This is the only truth, anything else is wrong’?”

“Kiṁ pana, bhante, ‘asassato loko, idameva saccaṁ moghamaññan’”ti?

“This too has not been declared by me.”

“Etampi kho, poṭṭhapāda, mayā abyākataṁ:

‘asassato loko, idameva saccaṁ moghamaññan’”ti.

“Then is this right: ‘The cosmos is finite …’ …

“Kiṁ pana, bhante, ‘antavā loko …pe…

‘The cosmos is infinite …’ …

‘anantavā loko …

‘The soul and the body are the same thing …’ …

‘taṁ jīvaṁ taṁ sarīraṁ …

‘The soul and the body are different things …’ …

‘aññaṁ jīvaṁ aññaṁ sarīraṁ …

‘A Realized One exists after death …’ …

‘hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā …

‘A Realized One doesn’t exist after death …’ …

‘na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā …

‘A Realized One both exists and doesn’t exist after death …’ …

‘hoti ca na ca hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā …

‘A Realized One neither exists nor doesn’t exist after death. This is the only truth, anything else is wrong’?”

‘neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā, idameva saccaṁ moghamaññan’”ti?

“This too has not been declared by me.”

“Etampi kho, poṭṭhapāda, mayā abyākataṁ:

‘neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā, idameva saccaṁ moghamaññan’”ti.

“Why haven’t these things been declared by the Buddha?”

“Kasmā panetaṁ, bhante, bhagavatā abyākatan”ti?

“Because they’re not beneficial or relevant to the fundamentals of the spiritual life. They don’t lead to disillusionment, dispassion, cessation, peace, insight, awakening, and extinguishment.

“Na hetaṁ, poṭṭhapāda, atthasaṁhitaṁ na dhammasaṁhitaṁ nādibrahmacariyakaṁ, na nibbidāya na virāgāya na nirodhāya na upasamāya na abhiññāya na sambodhāya na nibbānāya saṁvattati,

That’s why I haven’t declared them.”

tasmā etaṁ mayā abyākatan”ti.

“Then what has been declared by the Buddha?”

“Kiṁ pana, bhante, bhagavatā byākatan”ti?

“I have declared this: ‘This is suffering’ … ‘This is the origin of suffering’ … ‘This is the cessation of suffering’ … ‘This is the practice that leads to the cessation of suffering’.”

“Idaṁ dukkhanti kho, poṭṭhapāda, mayā byākataṁ. Ayaṁ dukkhasamudayoti kho, poṭṭhapāda, mayā byākataṁ. Ayaṁ dukkhanirodhoti kho, poṭṭhapāda, mayā byākataṁ. Ayaṁ dukkhanirodhagāminī paṭipadāti kho, poṭṭhapāda, mayā byākatan”ti.

“Why have these things been declared by the Buddha?”

“Kasmā panetaṁ, bhante, bhagavatā byākatan”ti?

“Because they are beneficial and relevant to the fundamentals of the spiritual life. They lead to disillusionment, dispassion, cessation, peace, insight, awakening, and extinguishment.

“Etañhi, poṭṭhapāda, atthasaṁhitaṁ, etaṁ dhammasaṁhitaṁ, etaṁ ādibrahmacariyakaṁ, etaṁ nibbidāya virāgāya nirodhāya upasamāya abhiññāya sambodhāya nibbānāya saṁvattati;

That’s why I have declared them.”

tasmā etaṁ mayā byākatan”ti.

“That’s so true, Blessed One! That’s so true, Holy One!

“Evametaṁ, bhagavā, evametaṁ, sugata.

Please, sir, go at your convenience.”

Yassadāni, bhante, bhagavā kālaṁ maññatī”ti.

Then the Buddha got up from his seat and left.

Atha kho bhagavā uṭṭhāyāsanā pakkāmi.

Soon after the Buddha left, those wanderers gave Poṭṭhapāda a comprehensive tongue-lashing,

Atha kho te paribbājakā acirapakkantassa bhagavato poṭṭhapādaṁ paribbājakaṁ samantato vācā sannitodakena sañjhabbharimakaṁsu:

“No matter what the ascetic Gotama says, Poṭṭhapāda agrees with him:

“evameva panāyaṁ bhavaṁ poṭṭhapādo yaññadeva samaṇo gotamo bhāsati, taṁ tadevassa abbhanumodati:

‘That’s so true, Blessed One! That’s so true, Holy One!’

‘evametaṁ, bhagavā, evametaṁ, sugatā’ti.

We understand that the ascetic Gotama didn’t make any definitive statement at all regarding whether the cosmos is eternal and so on.”

Na kho pana mayaṁ kiñci samaṇassa gotamassa ekaṁsikaṁ dhammaṁ desitaṁ ājānāma:

‘sassato loko’ti vā, ‘asassato loko’ti vā, ‘antavā loko’ti vā, ‘anantavā loko’ti vā, ‘taṁ jīvaṁ taṁ sarīran’ti vā, ‘aññaṁ jīvaṁ aññaṁ sarīran’ti vā, ‘hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’ti vā, ‘na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’ti vā, ‘hoti ca na ca hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’ti vā, ‘neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’ti vā”ti.

When they said this, Poṭṭhapāda said to them,

Evaṁ vutte, poṭṭhapādo paribbājako te paribbājake etadavoca:

“I too understand that the ascetic Gotama didn’t make any definitive statement at all regarding whether the cosmos is eternal and so on.

“ahampi kho, bho, na kiñci samaṇassa gotamassa ekaṁsikaṁ dhammaṁ desitaṁ ājānāmi:

‘sassato loko’ti vā, ‘asassato loko’ti vā …pe…

‘neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’ti vā;

Nevertheless, the practice that he describes is true, real, and accurate. It is the regularity of natural dhamma, the invariance of natural dhamma.

api ca samaṇo gotamo bhūtaṁ tacchaṁ tathaṁ paṭipadaṁ paññapeti dhammaṭṭhitataṁ dhammaniyāmataṁ.

So how could a sensible person such as I not agree that what was well spoken by the ascetic Gotama was in fact well spoken?”

Bhūtaṁ kho pana tacchaṁ tathaṁ paṭipadaṁ paññapentassa dhammaṭṭhitataṁ dhammaniyāmataṁ, kathañhi nāma mādiso viññū samaṇassa gotamassa subhāsitaṁ subhāsitato nābbhanumodeyyā”ti?

2. On Citta Hatthisāriputta

2. Cittahatthisāriputtapoṭṭhapādavatthu

Then after two or three days had passed, Citta Hatthisāriputta and Poṭṭhapāda went to see the Buddha. Citta Hatthisāriputta bowed and sat down to one side.

Atha kho dvīhatīhassa accayena citto ca hatthisāriputto poṭṭhapādo ca paribbājako yena bhagavā tenupasaṅkamiṁsu; upasaṅkamitvā citto hatthisāriputto bhagavantaṁ abhivādetvā ekamantaṁ nisīdi.

But the wanderer Poṭṭhapāda exchanged greetings with the Buddha, and when the greetings and polite conversation were over, he sat down to one side.

Poṭṭhapādo pana paribbājako bhagavatā saddhiṁ sammodi. Sammodanīyaṁ kathaṁ sāraṇīyaṁ vītisāretvā ekamantaṁ nisīdi.

Poṭṭhapāda told the Buddha what had happened after he left. The Buddha said:

Ekamantaṁ nisinno kho poṭṭhapādo paribbājako bhagavantaṁ etadavoca:

“tadā maṁ, bhante, te paribbājakā acirapakkantassa bhagavato samantato vācāsannitodakena sañjhabbharimakaṁsu:

‘evameva panāyaṁ bhavaṁ poṭṭhapādo yaññadeva samaṇo gotamo bhāsati, taṁ tadevassa abbhanumodati:

“evametaṁ, bhagavā, evametaṁ, sugatā”ti.

Na kho pana mayaṁ kiñci samaṇassa gotamassa ekaṁsikaṁ dhammaṁ desitaṁ ājānāma:

“sassato loko”ti vā, “asassato loko”ti vā, “antavā loko”ti vā, “anantavā loko”ti vā, “taṁ jīvaṁ taṁ sarīran”ti vā, “aññaṁ jīvaṁ aññaṁ sarīran”ti vā, “hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā”ti vā, “na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā”ti vā, “hoti ca na ca hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā”ti vā, “neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā”ti vā’ti.

Evaṁ vuttāhaṁ, bhante, te paribbājake etadavocaṁ:

‘ahampi kho, bho, na kiñci samaṇassa gotamassa ekaṁsikaṁ dhammaṁ desitaṁ ājānāmi:

“sassato loko”ti vā, “asassato loko”ti vā …pe…

“neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā”ti vā;

api ca samaṇo gotamo bhūtaṁ tacchaṁ tathaṁ paṭipadaṁ paññapeti dhammaṭṭhitataṁ dhammaniyāmataṁ.

“All those wanderers, Poṭṭhapāda, are blind and sightless.

“Sabbeva kho ete, poṭṭhapāda, paribbājakā andhā acakkhukā;

You are the only one who sees.

tvaṁyeva nesaṁ eko cakkhumā.

For I have taught and pointed out both things that are definitive

Ekaṁsikāpi hi kho, poṭṭhapāda, mayā dhammā desitā paññattā;

and things that are not definitive.

anekaṁsikāpi hi kho, poṭṭhapāda, mayā dhammā desitā paññattā.

And what things have I taught and pointed out that are not definitive?

Katame ca te, poṭṭhapāda, mayā anekaṁsikā dhammā desitā paññattā?

‘The cosmos is eternal’ …

‘Sassato loko’ti kho, poṭṭhapāda, mayā anekaṁsiko dhammo desito paññatto;

‘The cosmos is not eternal’ …

‘asassato loko’ti kho, poṭṭhapāda, mayā anekaṁsiko dhammo desito paññatto;

‘The cosmos is finite’ …

‘antavā loko’ti kho, poṭṭhapāda …pe…

‘The cosmos is infinite’ …

‘anantavā loko’ti kho, poṭṭhapāda …

‘The soul is the same thing as the body’ …

‘taṁ jīvaṁ taṁ sarīran’ti kho, poṭṭhapāda …

‘The soul and the body are different things’ …

‘aññaṁ jīvaṁ aññaṁ sarīran’ti kho, poṭṭhapāda …

‘A Realized One exists after death’ …

‘hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’ti kho, poṭṭhapāda …

‘A Realized One doesn’t exist after death’ …

na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’ti kho, poṭṭhapāda …

‘A Realized One both exists and doesn’t exist after death’ …

‘hoti ca na ca hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’ti kho, poṭṭhapāda …

‘A Realized One neither exists nor doesn’t exist after death.’

‘neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’ti kho, poṭṭhapāda, mayā anekaṁsiko dhammo desito paññatto.

And why haven’t I taught and pointed out such things that are not definitive?

Kasmā ca te, poṭṭhapāda, mayā anekaṁsikā dhammā desitā paññattā?

Because those things aren’t beneficial or relevant to the fundamentals of the spiritual life. They don’t lead to disillusionment, dispassion, cessation, peace, insight, awakening, and extinguishment.

Na hete, poṭṭhapāda, atthasaṁhitā na dhammasaṁhitā na ādibrahmacariyakā na nibbidāya na virāgāya na nirodhāya na upasamāya na abhiññāya na sambodhāya na nibbānāya saṁvattanti.

That’s why I haven’t taught and pointed them out.

Tasmā te mayā anekaṁsikā dhammā desitā paññattā.

2.1. Things That Are Definitive

2.1. Ekaṁsikadhammā

And what things have I taught and pointed out that are definitive?

Katame ca te, poṭṭhapāda, mayā ekaṁsikā dhammā desitā paññattā?

‘This is suffering’ … ‘This is the origin of suffering’ … ‘This is the cessation of suffering’ … ‘This is the practice that leads to the cessation of suffering’.”

Idaṁ dukkhanti kho, poṭṭhapāda, mayā ekaṁsiko dhammo desito paññatto.

Ayaṁ dukkhasamudayoti kho, poṭṭhapāda, mayā ekaṁsiko dhammo desito paññatto.

Ayaṁ dukkhanirodhoti kho, poṭṭhapāda, mayā ekaṁsiko dhammo desito paññatto.

Ayaṁ dukkhanirodhagāminī paṭipadāti kho, poṭṭhapāda, mayā ekaṁsiko dhammo desito paññatto.

And why have I taught and pointed out such things that are definitive?

Kasmā ca te, poṭṭhapāda, mayā ekaṁsikā dhammā desitā paññattā?

Because they are beneficial and relevant to the fundamentals of the spiritual life. They lead to disillusionment, dispassion, cessation, peace, insight, awakening, and extinguishment.

Ete hi, poṭṭhapāda, atthasaṁhitā, ete dhammasaṁhitā, ete ādibrahmacariyakā ete nibbidāya virāgāya nirodhāya upasamāya abhiññāya sambodhāya nibbānāya saṁvattanti.

That’s why I have taught and pointed them out.

Tasmā te mayā ekaṁsikā dhammā desitā paññattā.

There are some ascetics and brahmins who have this doctrine and view:

Santi, poṭṭhapāda, eke samaṇabrāhmaṇā evaṁvādino evaṁdiṭṭhino:

‘The self is exclusively happy and is well after death.’

‘ekantasukhī attā hoti arogo paraṁ maraṇā’ti.

I go up to them and say,

Tyāhaṁ upasaṅkamitvā evaṁ vadāmi:

‘Is it really true that this is the venerables’ view?’

‘saccaṁ kira tumhe āyasmanto evaṁvādino evaṁdiṭṭhino:

“ekantasukhī attā hoti arogo paraṁ maraṇā”’ti?

And they answer, ‘Yes’.

Te ce me evaṁ puṭṭhā ‘āmā’ti paṭijānanti.

I say to them,

Tyāhaṁ evaṁ vadāmi:

‘But do you meditate knowing and seeing an exclusively happy world?’

‘api pana tumhe āyasmanto ekantasukhaṁ lokaṁ jānaṁ passaṁ viharathā’ti?

Asked this, they say, ‘No.’

Iti puṭṭhā ‘no’ti vadanti.

I say to them,

Tyāhaṁ evaṁ vadāmi:

‘But have you perceived an exclusively happy self for a single day or night, or even half a day or night?’

‘api pana tumhe āyasmanto ekaṁ vā rattiṁ ekaṁ vā divasaṁ upaḍḍhaṁ vā rattiṁ upaḍḍhaṁ vā divasaṁ ekantasukhiṁ attānaṁ sañjānāthā’ti?

Asked this, they say, ‘No.’

Iti puṭṭhā ‘no’ti vadanti.

I say to them,

Tyāhaṁ evaṁ vadāmi:

‘But do you know

‘api pana tumhe āyasmanto jānātha:

a path and a practice to realize an exclusively happy world?’

“ayaṁ maggo ayaṁ paṭipadā ekantasukhassa lokassa sacchikiriyāyā”’ti?

Asked this, they say, ‘No.’

Iti puṭṭhā ‘no’ti vadanti.

I say to them,

Tyāhaṁ evaṁ vadāmi:

‘But have you ever heard the voice of the deities reborn in an exclusively happy world saying,

‘api pana tumhe āyasmanto yā tā devatā ekantasukhaṁ lokaṁ upapannā, tāsaṁ bhāsamānānaṁ saddaṁ suṇātha:

“Practice well, dear sirs, practice directly so as to realize an exclusively happy world.

“suppaṭipannāttha, mārisā, ujuppaṭipannāttha, mārisā, ekantasukhassa lokassa sacchikiriyāya;

For this is how we practiced, and we were reborn in an exclusively happy world”?’

mayampi hi, mārisā, evaṁpaṭipannā ekantasukhaṁ lokaṁ upapannā”’ti?

Asked this, they say, ‘No.’

Iti puṭṭhā ‘no’ti vadanti.

What do you think, Poṭṭhapāda?

Taṁ kiṁ maññasi, poṭṭhapāda,

This being so, doesn’t what they say turn out to have no demonstrable basis?”

nanu evaṁ sante tesaṁ samaṇabrāhmaṇānaṁ appāṭihīrakataṁ bhāsitaṁ sampajjatī”ti?

“Clearly that’s the case, sir.”

“Addhā kho, bhante, evaṁ sante tesaṁ samaṇabrāhmaṇānaṁ appāṭihīrakataṁ bhāsitaṁ sampajjatī”ti.

“Suppose, Poṭṭhapāda, a man were to say:

“Seyyathāpi, poṭṭhapāda, puriso evaṁ vadeyya:

‘Whoever the finest lady in the land is, it is her that I want, her that I desire!’

‘ahaṁ yā imasmiṁ janapade janapadakalyāṇī, taṁ icchāmi taṁ kāmemī’ti.

They’d say to him,

Tamenaṁ evaṁ vadeyyuṁ:

‘Mister, that finest lady in the land who you desire—do you know whether she’s an aristocrat, a brahmin, a merchant, or a worker?’

‘ambho purisa, yaṁ tvaṁ janapadakalyāṇiṁ icchasi kāmesi, jānāsi taṁ janapadakalyāṇiṁ khattiyī vā brāhmaṇī vā vessī vā suddī vā’ti?

Asked this, he’d say, ‘No.’

Iti puṭṭho ‘no’ti vadeyya.

They’d say to him,

Tamenaṁ evaṁ vadeyyuṁ:

‘Mister, that finest lady in the land who you desire—do you know her name or clan? Whether she’s tall or short or medium? Whether her skin is black, brown, or tawny? What village, town, or city she comes from?’

‘ambho purisa, yaṁ tvaṁ janapadakalyāṇiṁ icchasi kāmesi, jānāsi taṁ janapadakalyāṇiṁ evaṁnāmā evaṅgottāti vā, dīghā vā rassā vā majjhimā vā kāḷī vā sāmā vā maṅguracchavī vāti, amukasmiṁ gāme vā nigame vā nagare vā’ti?

Asked this, he’d say, ‘No.’

Iti puṭṭho ‘no’ti vadeyya.

They’d say to him,

Tamenaṁ evaṁ vadeyyuṁ:

‘Mister, do you desire someone who you’ve never even known or seen?’

‘ambho purisa, yaṁ tvaṁ na jānāsi na passasi, taṁ tvaṁ icchasi kāmesī’ti?

Asked this, he’d say, ‘Yes.’

Iti puṭṭho ‘āmā’ti vadeyya.

What do you think, Poṭṭhapāda?

Taṁ kiṁ maññasi, poṭṭhapāda,

This being so, doesn’t that man’s statement turn out to have no demonstrable basis?”

nanu evaṁ sante tassa purisassa appāṭihīrakataṁ bhāsitaṁ sampajjatī”ti?

“Clearly that’s the case, sir.”

“Addhā kho, bhante, evaṁ sante tassa purisassa appāṭihīrakataṁ bhāsitaṁ sampajjatī”ti.

“In the same way, the ascetics and brahmins who have those various doctrines and views …

“Evameva kho, poṭṭhapāda, ye te samaṇabrāhmaṇā evaṁvādino evaṁdiṭṭhino:

‘ekantasukhī attā hoti arogo paraṁ maraṇā’ti.

Tyāhaṁ upasaṅkamitvā evaṁ vadāmi:

‘saccaṁ kira tumhe āyasmanto evaṁvādino evaṁdiṭṭhino:

“ekantasukhī attā hoti arogo paraṁ maraṇā”’ti?

Te ce me evaṁ puṭṭhā ‘āmā’ti paṭijānanti.

Tyāhaṁ evaṁ vadāmi:

‘api pana tumhe āyasmanto ekantasukhaṁ lokaṁ jānaṁ passaṁ viharathā’ti?

Iti puṭṭhā ‘no’ti vadanti.

Tyāhaṁ evaṁ vadāmi:

‘api pana tumhe āyasmanto ekaṁ vā rattiṁ ekaṁ vā divasaṁ upaḍḍhaṁ vā rattiṁ upaḍḍhaṁ vā divasaṁ ekantasukhiṁ attānaṁ sañjānāthā’ti?

Iti puṭṭhā ‘no’ti vadanti.

Tyāhaṁ evaṁ vadāmi:

‘api pana tumhe āyasmanto jānātha:

“ayaṁ maggo ayaṁ paṭipadā ekantasukhassa lokassa sacchikiriyāyā”’ti?

Iti puṭṭhā ‘no’ti vadanti.

Tyāhaṁ evaṁ vadāmi:

‘api pana tumhe āyasmanto yā tā devatā ekantasukhaṁ lokaṁ upapannā, tāsaṁ bhāsamānānaṁ saddaṁ suṇātha:

“suppaṭipannāttha, mārisā, ujuppaṭipannāttha, mārisā, ekantasukhassa lokassa sacchikiriyāya;

mayampi hi, mārisā, evaṁpaṭipannā ekantasukhaṁ lokaṁ upapannā”’ti?

Iti puṭṭhā ‘no’ti vadanti.

Doesn’t what they say turn out to have no demonstrable basis?”

Taṁ kiṁ maññasi, poṭṭhapāda, nanu evaṁ sante tesaṁ samaṇabrāhmaṇānaṁ appāṭihīrakataṁ bhāsitaṁ sampajjatī”ti?

“Clearly that’s the case, sir.”

“Addhā kho, bhante, evaṁ sante tesaṁ samaṇabrāhmaṇānaṁ appāṭihīrakataṁ bhāsitaṁ sampajjatī”ti.

“Suppose a man was to build a ladder at the crossroads for climbing up to a stilt longhouse.

“Seyyathāpi, poṭṭhapāda, puriso cātumahāpathe nisseṇiṁ kareyya pāsādassa ārohaṇāya.

They’d say to him,

Tamenaṁ evaṁ vadeyyuṁ:

‘Mister, that stilt longhouse that you’re building a ladder for—do you know whether it’s to the north, south, east, or west? Or whether it’s tall or short or medium?’

‘ambho purisa, yassa tvaṁ pāsādassa ārohaṇāya nisseṇiṁ karosi, jānāsi taṁ pāsādaṁ puratthimāya vā disāya dakkhiṇāya vā disāya pacchimāya vā disāya uttarāya vā disāya ucco vā nīco vā majjhimo vā’ti?

Asked this, he’d say, ‘No.’

Iti puṭṭho ‘no’ti vadeyya.

They’d say to him,

Tamenaṁ evaṁ vadeyyuṁ:

‘Mister, are you building a ladder for a longhouse that you’ve never even known or seen?’

‘ambho purisa, yaṁ tvaṁ na jānāsi na passasi, tassa tvaṁ pāsādassa ārohaṇāya nisseṇiṁ karosī’ti?

Asked this, he’d say, ‘Yes.’

Iti puṭṭho ‘āmā’ti vadeyya.

What do you think, Poṭṭhapāda?

Taṁ kiṁ maññasi, poṭṭhapāda,

This being so, doesn’t that man’s statement turn out to have no demonstrable basis?”

nanu evaṁ sante tassa purisassa appāṭihīrakataṁ bhāsitaṁ sampajjatī”ti?

“Clearly that’s the case, sir.”

“Addhā kho, bhante, evaṁ sante tassa purisassa appāṭihīrakataṁ bhāsitaṁ sampajjatī”ti.

“In the same way, the ascetics and brahmins who have those various doctrines and views …

“Evameva kho, poṭṭhapāda, ye te samaṇabrāhmaṇā evaṁvādino evaṁdiṭṭhino:

‘ekantasukhī attā hoti arogo paraṁ maraṇā’ti.

Tyāhaṁ upasaṅkamitvā evaṁ vadāmi:

‘saccaṁ kira tumhe āyasmanto evaṁvādino evaṁdiṭṭhino:

“ekantasukhī attā hoti arogo paraṁ maraṇā”’ti?

Te ce me evaṁ puṭṭhā ‘āmā’ti paṭijānanti.

Tyāhaṁ evaṁ vadāmi:

‘api pana tumhe āyasmanto ekantasukhaṁ lokaṁ jānaṁ passaṁ viharathā’ti?

Iti puṭṭhā ‘no’ti vadanti.

Tyāhaṁ evaṁ vadāmi:

‘api pana tumhe āyasmanto ekaṁ vā rattiṁ ekaṁ vā divasaṁ upaḍḍhaṁ vā rattiṁ upaḍḍhaṁ vā divasaṁ ekantasukhiṁ attānaṁ sañjānāthā’ti?

Iti puṭṭhā ‘no’ti vadanti.

Tyāhaṁ evaṁ vadāmi:

‘api pana tumhe āyasmanto jānātha ayaṁ maggo ayaṁ paṭipadā ekantasukhassa lokassa sacchikiriyāyā’ti?

Iti puṭṭhā ‘no’ti vadanti.

Tyāhaṁ evaṁ vadāmi:

‘api pana tumhe āyasmanto yā tā devatā ekantasukhaṁ lokaṁ upapannā tāsaṁ devatānaṁ bhāsamānānaṁ saddaṁ suṇātha:

“suppaṭipannāttha, mārisā, ujuppaṭipannāttha, mārisā, ekantasukhassa lokassa sacchikiriyāya;

mayampi hi, mārisā, evaṁ paṭipannā ekantasukhaṁ lokaṁ upapannā”’ti?

Iti puṭṭhā ‘no’ti vadanti.

Doesn’t what they say turn out to have no demonstrable basis?”

Taṁ kiṁ maññasi, poṭṭhapāda, nanu evaṁ sante tesaṁ samaṇabrāhmaṇānaṁ appāṭihīrakataṁ bhāsitaṁ sampajjatī”ti?

“Clearly that’s the case, sir.”

“Addhā kho, bhante, evaṁ sante tesaṁ samaṇabrāhmaṇānaṁ appāṭihīrakataṁ bhāsitaṁ sampajjatī”ti.

2.2. Three Kinds of Reincarnation

2.2. Tayoattapaṭilābha

“Poṭṭhapāda, there are these three kinds of reincarnation:

“Tayo kho me, poṭṭhapāda, attapaṭilābhā—

a substantial reincarnation, a mind-made reincarnation, and a non-physical reincarnation.

oḷāriko attapaṭilābho, manomayo attapaṭilābho, arūpo attapaṭilābho.

And what is a substantial reincarnation?

Katamo ca, poṭṭhapāda, oḷāriko attapaṭilābho?

It is physical, made up of the four primary elements, and consumes solid food.

Rūpī cātumahābhūtiko kabaḷīkārāhārabhakkho, ayaṁ oḷāriko attapaṭilābho.

What is a mind-made reincarnation?

Katamo manomayo attapaṭilābho?

It is physical, mind-made, complete in all its various parts, not deficient in any faculty.

Rūpī manomayo sabbaṅgapaccaṅgī ahīnindriyo, ayaṁ manomayo attapaṭilābho.

What is a non-physical reincarnation?

Katamo arūpo attapaṭilābho?

It is non-physical, made of perception.

Arūpī saññāmayo, ayaṁ arūpo attapaṭilābho.

I teach the Dhamma for the giving up of these three kinds of reincarnation:

Oḷārikassapi kho ahaṁ, poṭṭhapāda, attapaṭilābhassa pahānāya dhammaṁ desemi:

‘When you practice accordingly, corrupting qualities will be given up in you and cleansing qualities will grow. You’ll enter and remain in the fullness and abundance of wisdom, having realized it with your own insight in this very life.’

‘yathāpaṭipannānaṁ vo saṅkilesikā dhammā pahīyissanti, vodāniyā dhammā abhivaḍḍhissanti, paññāpāripūriṁ vepullattañca diṭṭheva dhamme sayaṁ abhiññā sacchikatvā upasampajja viharissathā’ti.

Poṭṭhapāda, you might think:

Siyā kho pana te, poṭṭhapāda, evamassa:

‘Corrupting qualities will be given up and cleansing qualities will grow. One will enter and remain in the fullness and abundance of wisdom, having realized it with one’s own insight in this very life. But such a life is suffering.’

‘saṅkilesikā dhammā pahīyissanti, vodāniyā dhammā abhivaḍḍhissanti, paññāpāripūriṁ vepullattañca diṭṭheva dhamme sayaṁ abhiññā sacchikatvā upasampajja viharissati, dukkho ca kho vihāro’ti.

But you should not see it like this.

Na kho panetaṁ, poṭṭhapāda, evaṁ daṭṭhabbaṁ.

Corrupting qualities will be given up and cleansing qualities will grow. One will enter and remain in the fullness and abundance of wisdom, having realized it with one’s own insight in this very life. And there will be only joy and happiness, tranquility, mindfulness and awareness. Such a life is blissful.

Saṅkilesikā ceva dhammā pahīyissanti, vodāniyā ca dhammā abhivaḍḍhissanti, paññāpāripūriṁ vepullattañca diṭṭheva dhamme sayaṁ abhiññā sacchikatvā upasampajja viharissati, pāmujjañceva bhavissati pīti ca passaddhi ca sati ca sampajaññañca sukho ca vihāro.

Manomayassapi kho ahaṁ, poṭṭhapāda, attapaṭilābhassa pahānāya dhammaṁ desemi:

Siyā kho pana te, poṭṭhapāda, evamassa:

Na kho panetaṁ, poṭṭhapāda, evaṁ daṭṭhabbaṁ.

Arūpassapi kho ahaṁ, poṭṭhapāda, attapaṭilābhassa pahānāya dhammaṁ desemi:

Siyā kho pana te, poṭṭhapāda, evamassa:

Na kho panetaṁ, poṭṭhapāda, evaṁ daṭṭhabbaṁ.

If others should ask us,

Pare ce, poṭṭhapāda, amhe evaṁ puccheyyuṁ:

‘But reverends, what is that substantial reincarnation?’ We’d answer like this,

‘katamo pana so, āvuso, oḷāriko attapaṭilābho, yassa tumhe pahānāya dhammaṁ desetha, yathāpaṭipannānaṁ vo saṅkilesikā dhammā pahīyissanti, vodāniyā dhammā abhivaḍḍhissanti, paññāpāripūriṁ vepullattañca diṭṭheva dhamme sayaṁ abhiññā sacchikatvā upasampajja viharissathā’ti, tesaṁ mayaṁ evaṁ puṭṭhā evaṁ byākareyyāma:

‘This is that substantial reincarnation.’

‘ayaṁ vā so, āvuso, oḷāriko attapaṭilābho, yassa mayaṁ pahānāya dhammaṁ desema, yathāpaṭipannānaṁ vo saṅkilesikā dhammā pahīyissanti, vodāniyā dhammā abhivaḍḍhissanti, paññāpāripūriṁ vepullattañca diṭṭheva dhamme sayaṁ abhiññā sacchikatvā upasampajja viharissathā’ti.

If others should ask us,

Pare ce, poṭṭhapāda, amhe evaṁ puccheyyuṁ:

‘But reverends, what is that mind-made reincarnation?’ We’d answer like this,

‘katamo pana so, āvuso, manomayo attapaṭilābho, yassa tumhe pahānāya dhammaṁ desetha, yathāpaṭipannānaṁ vo saṅkilesikā dhammā pahīyissanti, vodāniyā dhammā abhivaḍḍhissanti, paññāpāripūriṁ vepullattañca diṭṭheva dhamme sayaṁ abhiññā sacchikatvā upasampajja viharissathā’ti?

Tesaṁ mayaṁ evaṁ puṭṭhā evaṁ byākareyyāma:

‘This is that mind-made reincarnation.’

‘ayaṁ vā so, āvuso, manomayo attapaṭilābho yassa mayaṁ pahānāya dhammaṁ desema, yathāpaṭipannānaṁ vo saṅkilesikā dhammā pahīyissanti, vodāniyā dhammā abhivaḍḍhissanti, paññāpāripūriṁ vepullattañca diṭṭheva dhamme sayaṁ abhiññā sacchikatvā upasampajja viharissathā’ti.

If others should ask us,

Pare ce, poṭṭhapāda, amhe evaṁ puccheyyuṁ:

‘But reverends, what is that non-physical reincarnation?’ We’d answer like this,

‘katamo pana so, āvuso, arūpo attapaṭilābho, yassa tumhe pahānāya dhammaṁ desetha, yathāpaṭipannānaṁ vo saṅkilesikā dhammā pahīyissanti, vodāniyā dhammā abhivaḍḍhissanti, paññāpāripūriṁ vepullattañca diṭṭheva dhamme sayaṁ abhiññā sacchikatvā upasampajja viharissathā’ti?

Tesaṁ mayaṁ evaṁ puṭṭhā evaṁ byākareyyāma:

‘This is that non-physical reincarnation.’

‘ayaṁ vā so, āvuso, arūpo attapaṭilābho yassa mayaṁ pahānāya dhammaṁ desema, yathāpaṭipannānaṁ vo saṅkilesikā dhammā pahīyissanti, vodāniyā dhammā abhivaḍḍhissanti, paññāpāripūriṁ vepullattañca diṭṭheva dhamme sayaṁ abhiññā sacchikatvā upasampajja viharissathā’ti.

What do you think, Poṭṭhapāda?

Taṁ kiṁ maññasi, poṭṭhapāda,

This being so, doesn’t that statement turn out to have a demonstrable basis?”

nanu evaṁ sante sappāṭihīrakataṁ bhāsitaṁ sampajjatī”ti?

“Clearly that’s the case, sir.”

“Addhā kho, bhante, evaṁ sante sappāṭihīrakataṁ bhāsitaṁ sampajjatī”ti.

“Suppose a man were to build a ladder for climbing up to a stilt longhouse right underneath that longhouse.

“Seyyathāpi, poṭṭhapāda, puriso nisseṇiṁ kareyya pāsādassa ārohaṇāya tasseva pāsādassa heṭṭhā.

They’d say to him,

Tamenaṁ evaṁ vadeyyuṁ:

‘Mister, that stilt longhouse that you’re building a ladder for—do you know whether it’s to the north, south, east, or west? Or whether it’s tall or short or medium?’

‘ambho purisa, yassa tvaṁ pāsādassa ārohaṇāya nisseṇiṁ karosi, jānāsi taṁ pāsādaṁ, puratthimāya vā disāya dakkhiṇāya vā disāya pacchimāya vā disāya uttarāya vā disāya ucco vā nīco vā majjhimo vā’ti?

He’d say,

So evaṁ vadeyya:

‘This is that stilt longhouse for which I’m building a ladder, right underneath it.’

‘ayaṁ vā so, āvuso, pāsādo, yassāhaṁ ārohaṇāya nisseṇiṁ karomi, tasseva pāsādassa heṭṭhā’ti.

What do you think, Poṭṭhapāda?

Taṁ kiṁ maññasi, poṭṭhapāda,

This being so, doesn’t that man’s statement turn out to have a demonstrable basis?”

nanu evaṁ sante tassa purisassa sappāṭihīrakataṁ bhāsitaṁ sampajjatī”ti?

“Clearly that’s the case, sir.”

“Addhā kho, bhante, evaṁ sante tassa purisassa sappāṭihīrakataṁ bhāsitaṁ sampajjatī”ti.

“Evameva kho, poṭṭhapāda, pare ce amhe evaṁ puccheyyuṁ:

‘katamo pana so, āvuso, oḷāriko attapaṭilābho …pe…

katamo pana so, āvuso, manomayo attapaṭilābho …pe…

katamo pana so, āvuso, arūpo attapaṭilābho, yassa tumhe pahānāya dhammaṁ desetha, yathāpaṭipannānaṁ vo saṅkilesikā dhammā pahīyissanti, vodāniyā dhammā abhivaḍḍhissanti, paññāpāripūriṁ vepullattañca diṭṭheva dhamme sayaṁ abhiññā sacchikatvā upasampajja viharissathā’ti?

Tesaṁ mayaṁ evaṁ puṭṭhā evaṁ byākareyyāma:

‘ayaṁ vā so, āvuso, arūpo attapaṭilābho, yassa mayaṁ pahānāya dhammaṁ desema, yathāpaṭipannānaṁ vo saṅkilesikā dhammā pahīyissanti, vodāniyā dhammā abhivaḍḍhissanti, paññāpāripūriṁ vepullattañca diṭṭheva dhamme sayaṁ abhiññā sacchikatvā upasampajja viharissathā’ti.

Taṁ kiṁ maññasi, poṭṭhapāda, nanu evaṁ sante sappāṭihīrakataṁ bhāsitaṁ sampajjatī”ti?

“Addhā kho, bhante, evaṁ sante sappāṭihīrakataṁ bhāsitaṁ sampajjatī”ti.

When the Buddha had spoken, Citta Hatthisāriputta said,

Evaṁ vutte, citto hatthisāriputto bhagavantaṁ etadavoca:

“Sir, while in a substantial reincarnation, are the mind-made and non-physical reincarnations fictitious,

“yasmiṁ, bhante, samaye oḷāriko attapaṭilābho hoti, moghassa tasmiṁ samaye manomayo attapaṭilābho hoti, mogho arūpo attapaṭilābho hoti;

and only the substantial reincarnation real?

oḷāriko vāssa attapaṭilābho tasmiṁ samaye sacco hoti.

While in a mind-made reincarnation, are the substantial and non-physical reincarnations fictitious,

Yasmiṁ, bhante, samaye manomayo attapaṭilābho hoti, moghassa tasmiṁ samaye oḷāriko attapaṭilābho hoti, mogho arūpo attapaṭilābho hoti;

and only the mind-made reincarnation real?

manomayo vāssa attapaṭilābho tasmiṁ samaye sacco hoti.

While in a non-physical reincarnation, are the substantial and mind-made reincarnations fictitious,

Yasmiṁ, bhante, samaye arūpo attapaṭilābho hoti, moghassa tasmiṁ samaye oḷāriko attapaṭilābho hoti, mogho manomayo attapaṭilābho hoti;

and only the non-physical reincarnation real?”

arūpo vāssa attapaṭilābho tasmiṁ samaye sacco hotī”ti.

“While in a substantial reincarnation, it’s not referred to as a mind-made or non-physical reincarnation,

“Yasmiṁ, citta, samaye oḷāriko attapaṭilābho hoti, neva tasmiṁ samaye manomayo attapaṭilābhoti saṅkhaṁ gacchati, na arūpo attapaṭilābhoti saṅkhaṁ gacchati;

only as a substantial reincarnation.

oḷāriko attapaṭilābhotveva tasmiṁ samaye saṅkhaṁ gacchati.

While in a mind-made reincarnation, it’s not referred to as a substantial or non-physical reincarnation,

Yasmiṁ, citta, samaye manomayo attapaṭilābho hoti, neva tasmiṁ samaye oḷāriko attapaṭilābhoti saṅkhaṁ gacchati, na arūpo attapaṭilābhoti saṅkhaṁ gacchati;

only as a mind-made reincarnation.

manomayo attapaṭilābhotveva tasmiṁ samaye saṅkhaṁ gacchati.

While in a non-physical reincarnation, it’s not referred to as a substantial or mind-made reincarnation,

Yasmiṁ, citta, samaye arūpo attapaṭilābho hoti, neva tasmiṁ samaye oḷāriko attapaṭilābhoti saṅkhaṁ gacchati, na manomayo attapaṭilābhoti saṅkhaṁ gacchati;

only as a non-physical reincarnation.

arūpo attapaṭilābhotveva tasmiṁ samaye saṅkhaṁ gacchati.

Citta, suppose they were to ask you,

Sace taṁ, citta, evaṁ puccheyyuṁ:

‘Did you exist in the past?

‘ahosi tvaṁ atītamaddhānaṁ, na tvaṁ nāhosi;

Will you exist in the future?

bhavissasi tvaṁ anāgatamaddhānaṁ, na tvaṁ na bhavissasi;

Do you exist now?’

atthi tvaṁ etarahi, na tvaṁ natthī’ti.

How would you answer?”

Evaṁ puṭṭho tvaṁ, citta, kinti byākareyyāsī”ti?

“Sir, if they were to ask me this,

“Sace maṁ, bhante, evaṁ puccheyyuṁ:

‘ahosi tvaṁ atītamaddhānaṁ, na tvaṁ na ahosi;

bhavissasi tvaṁ anāgatamaddhānaṁ, na tvaṁ na bhavissasi;

atthi tvaṁ etarahi, na tvaṁ natthī’ti.

I’d answer like this,

Evaṁ puṭṭho ahaṁ, bhante, evaṁ byākareyyaṁ:

‘I existed in the past.

‘ahosāhaṁ atītamaddhānaṁ, nāhaṁ na ahosiṁ;

I will exist in the future.

bhavissāmahaṁ anāgatamaddhānaṁ, nāhaṁ na bhavissāmi;

I exist now.’

atthāhaṁ etarahi, nāhaṁ natthī’ti.

That’s how I’d answer.”

Evaṁ puṭṭho ahaṁ, bhante, evaṁ byākareyyan”ti.

“But Citta, suppose they were to ask you,

“Sace pana taṁ, citta, evaṁ puccheyyuṁ:

‘Is the reincarnation you had in the past your only real one, and those of the future and present fictitious?

‘yo te ahosi atīto attapaṭilābho, sova te attapaṭilābho sacco, mogho anāgato, mogho paccuppanno?

Is the reincarnation you will have in the future your only real one, and those of the past and present fictitious?

Yo te bhavissati anāgato attapaṭilābho, sova te attapaṭilābho sacco, mogho atīto, mogho paccuppanno?

Is the reincarnation you have now your only real one, and those of the past and future fictitious?’

Yo te etarahi paccuppanno attapaṭilābho, sova te attapaṭilābho sacco, mogho atīto, mogho anāgato’ti.

How would you answer?”

Evaṁ puṭṭho tvaṁ, citta, kinti byākareyyāsī”ti?

“Sir, if they were to ask me this,

“Sace pana maṁ, bhante, evaṁ puccheyyuṁ:

‘yo te ahosi atīto attapaṭilābho, sova te attapaṭilābho sacco, mogho anāgato, mogho paccuppanno.

Yo te bhavissati anāgato attapaṭilābho, sova te attapaṭilābho sacco, mogho atīto, mogho paccuppanno.

Yo te etarahi paccuppanno attapaṭilābho, sova te attapaṭilābho sacco, mogho atīto, mogho anāgato’ti.

I’d answer like this,

Evaṁ puṭṭho ahaṁ, bhante, evaṁ byākareyyaṁ:

‘The reincarnation I had in the past was real at that time, and those of the future and present fictitious.

‘yo me ahosi atīto attapaṭilābho, sova me attapaṭilābho tasmiṁ samaye sacco ahosi, mogho anāgato, mogho paccuppanno.

The reincarnation I will have in the future will be real at the time, and those of the past and present fictitious.

Yo me bhavissati anāgato attapaṭilābho, sova me attapaṭilābho tasmiṁ samaye sacco bhavissati, mogho atīto, mogho paccuppanno.

The reincarnation I have now is real at this time, and those of the past and future fictitious.’

Yo me etarahi paccuppanno attapaṭilābho, sova me attapaṭilābho sacco, mogho atīto, mogho anāgato’ti.

That’s how I’d answer.”

Evaṁ puṭṭho ahaṁ, bhante, evaṁ byākareyyan”ti.

“In the same way, while in any one of the three reincarnations, it’s not referred to as the other two, only under its own name.

“Evameva kho, citta, yasmiṁ samaye oḷāriko attapaṭilābho hoti, neva tasmiṁ samaye manomayo attapaṭilābhoti saṅkhaṁ gacchati, na arūpo attapaṭilābhoti saṅkhaṁ gacchati.

Oḷāriko attapaṭilābhotveva tasmiṁ samaye saṅkhaṁ gacchati.

Yasmiṁ, citta, samaye manomayo attapaṭilābho hoti …pe…

yasmiṁ, citta, samaye arūpo attapaṭilābho hoti, neva tasmiṁ samaye oḷāriko attapaṭilābhoti saṅkhaṁ gacchati, na manomayo attapaṭilābhoti saṅkhaṁ gacchati;

arūpo attapaṭilābhotveva tasmiṁ samaye saṅkhaṁ gacchati.

From a cow comes milk, from milk comes curds, from curds come butter, from butter comes ghee, and from ghee comes cream of ghee. And the cream of ghee is said to be the best of these.

Seyyathāpi, citta, gavā khīraṁ, khīramhā dadhi, dadhimhā navanītaṁ, navanītamhā sappi, sappimhā sappimaṇḍo.

While it’s milk, it’s not referred to as curds, butter, ghee, or cream of ghee.

Yasmiṁ samaye khīraṁ hoti, neva tasmiṁ samaye dadhīti saṅkhaṁ gacchati, na navanītanti saṅkhaṁ gacchati, na sappīti saṅkhaṁ gacchati, na sappimaṇḍoti saṅkhaṁ gacchati;

It’s only referred to as milk.

khīrantveva tasmiṁ samaye saṅkhaṁ gacchati.

While it’s curd

Yasmiṁ samaye dadhi hoti …pe…

or butter

navanītaṁ hoti …

or ghee

sappi hoti …

or cream of ghee, it’s not referred to as anything else,

sappimaṇḍo hoti, neva tasmiṁ samaye khīranti saṅkhaṁ gacchati, na dadhīti saṅkhaṁ gacchati, na navanītanti saṅkhaṁ gacchati, na sappīti saṅkhaṁ gacchati;

only under its own name.

sappimaṇḍotveva tasmiṁ samaye saṅkhaṁ gacchati.

In the same way, while in any one of the three reincarnations, it’s not referred to as the other two, only under its own name.

Evameva kho, citta, yasmiṁ samaye oḷāriko attapaṭilābho hoti …pe…

yasmiṁ, citta, samaye manomayo attapaṭilābho hoti …pe…

yasmiṁ, citta, samaye arūpo attapaṭilābho hoti, neva tasmiṁ samaye oḷāriko attapaṭilābhoti saṅkhaṁ gacchati, na manomayo attapaṭilābhoti saṅkhaṁ gacchati;

arūpo attapaṭilābhotveva tasmiṁ samaye saṅkhaṁ gacchati.

These are the world’s usages, terms, expressions, and descriptions, which the Realized One uses without misapprehending them.”

Imā kho, citta, lokasamaññā lokaniruttiyo lokavohārā lokapaññattiyo, yāhi tathāgato voharati aparāmasan”ti.

When he had spoken, the wanderer Poṭṭhapāda said to the Buddha,

Evaṁ vutte, poṭṭhapādo paribbājako bhagavantaṁ etadavoca:

“Excellent, sir! Excellent!

“abhikkantaṁ, bhante, abhikkantaṁ, bhante.

As if he were righting the overturned, or revealing the hidden, or pointing out the path to the lost, or lighting a lamp in the dark so people with good eyes can see what’s there, so too the Buddha has made the teaching clear in many ways.

Seyyathāpi, bhante, nikkujjitaṁ vā ukkujjeyya, paṭicchannaṁ vā vivareyya, mūḷhassa vā maggaṁ ācikkheyya, andhakāre vā telapajjotaṁ dhāreyya: ‘cakkhumanto rūpāni dakkhantī’ti; evamevaṁ bhagavatā anekapariyāyena dhammo pakāsito.

I go for refuge to the Buddha, to the teaching, and to the bhikkhu Saṅgha.

Esāhaṁ, bhante, bhagavantaṁ saraṇaṁ gacchāmi dhammañca bhikkhusaṅghañca.

From this day forth, may the Buddha remember me as a lay follower who has gone for refuge for life.”

Upāsakaṁ maṁ bhagavā dhāretu ajjatagge pāṇupetaṁ saraṇaṁ gatan”ti.

2.3. The Ordination of Citta Hatthisāriputta

2.3. Cittahatthisāriputtaupasampadā

But Citta Hatthisāriputta said to the Buddha,

Citto pana hatthisāriputto bhagavantaṁ etadavoca:

“Excellent, sir! Excellent!

“abhikkantaṁ, bhante, abhikkantaṁ, bhante.

I go for refuge to the Buddha, to the teaching, and to the bhikkhu Saṅgha.

Esāhaṁ, bhante, bhagavantaṁ saraṇaṁ gacchāmi dhammañca bhikkhusaṅghañca.

Sir, may I receive the going forth, the ordination in the Buddha’s presence?”

Labheyyāhaṁ, bhante, bhagavato santike pabbajjaṁ, labheyyaṁ upasampadan”ti.

And Citta Hatthisāriputta received the going forth, the ordination in the Buddha’s presence.

Alattha kho citto hatthisāriputto bhagavato santike pabbajjaṁ, alattha upasampadaṁ.

Not long after his ordination, Venerable Citta Hatthisāriputta, living alone, withdrawn, diligent, keen, and resolute, soon realized the supreme end of the spiritual path in this very life. He lived having achieved with his own insight the goal for which gentlemen rightly go forth from the lay life to homelessness.

Acirūpasampanno kho panāyasmā citto hatthisāriputto eko vūpakaṭṭho appamatto ātāpī pahitatto viharanto na cirasseva—yassatthāya kulaputtā sammadeva agārasmā anagāriyaṁ pabbajanti, tadanuttaraṁ—brahmacariyapariyosānaṁ diṭṭheva dhamme sayaṁ abhiññā sacchikatvā upasampajja vihāsi.

He understood: “Rebirth is ended; the spiritual journey has been completed; what had to be done has been done; there is no return to any state of existence.”

“khīṇā jāti, vusitaṁ brahmacariyaṁ, kataṁ karaṇīyaṁ, nāparaṁ itthAttāyā”ti abbhaññāsi.

And Venerable Citta Hatthisāriputta became one of the perfected.

Aññataro kho panāyasmā citto hatthisāriputto arahataṁ ahosīti.

Summary by Bhikkhu Bodhi

Poṭṭhapāda Sutta: About Poṭṭhapada (States of Consciousness). The ascetic Poṭṭhapada tells the Buddha that he and his fellows have been debating about ‘the higher extinction of consciousness’, and seeks a ruling on the matter. The Buddha says those who think mental states arise and pass away by chance are quite wrong. He lists the various jhāna states, showing how perception can be ‘controlled’. Poṭṭhapada says he has never heard anything like all this before. The discussion moves to various kinds of possible self, all of which the Buddha refutes, and to the ‘unanswered questions’ and the reason for their not being answered. Citta, son of an elephant-trainer, joins in the discussion, and finally, while Poṭṭhapada becomes a lay-follower, Citta becomes a bhikkhu and soon gains Arahantship. In this Sutta we first find the parable of the man who said he was in love with the most beautiful girl in the country, without knowing who she was or what she looked like.