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Long Discourses 7 – Dīgha Nikāya 7
DN 7 With Jāliya – Jāliyasutta
[Summary]
So I have heard.
Evaṁ me sutaṁ—
At one time the Buddha was staying near Kosambi, in Ghosita’s Monastery.
ekaṁ samayaṁ bhagavā kosambiyaṁ viharati ghositārāme.
Now at that time two renunciates—
Tena kho pana samayena dve pabbajitā—
the wanderer Muṇḍiya and Jāliya the pupil of Dārupattika—came to the Buddha and exchanged greetings with him.
muṇḍiyo ca paribbājako jāliyo ca dārupattikantevāsī yena bhagavā tenupasaṅkamiṁsu; upasaṅkamitvā bhagavatā saddhiṁ sammodiṁsu.
When the greetings and polite conversation were over, they stood to one side and said to the Buddha,
Sammodanīyaṁ kathaṁ sāraṇīyaṁ vītisāretvā ekamantaṁ aṭṭhaṁsu. Ekamantaṁ ṭhitā kho te dve pabbajitā bhagavantaṁ etadavocuṁ:
“Reverend Gotama, are the soul and the body the same thing, or they are different things?”
“kiṁ nu kho, āvuso gotama, taṁ jīvaṁ taṁ sarīraṁ, udāhu aññaṁ jīvaṁ aññaṁ sarīran”ti?
“Well then, reverends, listen and pay close attention, I will speak.”
“Tena hāvuso, suṇātha sādhukaṁ manasi karotha, bhāsissāmī”ti.
“Yes, reverend,” they replied.
“Evamāvuso”ti kho te dve pabbajitā bhagavato paccassosuṁ.
The Buddha said this:
Bhagavā etadavoca:
“Take the case when a Realized One arises in the world, perfected, a fully awakened Buddha …
“idhāvuso, tathāgato loke uppajjati arahaṁ, sammāsambuddho …pe…
That’s how a bhikkhu is accomplished in ethics. …
Evaṁ kho, āvuso, bhikkhu sīlasampanno hoti.
…pe…
They enter and remain in the first absorption …
Paṭhamaṁ jhānaṁ upasampajja viharati.
When a bhikkhu knows and sees like this, would it be appropriate to say of them:
Yo kho, āvuso, bhikkhu evaṁ jānāti evaṁ passati, kallaṁ nu kho tassetaṁ vacanāya:
‘The soul and the body are the same thing’ or ‘The soul and the body are different things’?”
‘taṁ jīvaṁ taṁ sarīran’ti vā ‘aññaṁ jīvaṁ aññaṁ sarīran’ti vāti.
“It would, reverend.”
Yo so, āvuso, bhikkhu evaṁ jānāti evaṁ passati, kallaṁ tassetaṁ vacanāya:
‘taṁ jīvaṁ taṁ sarīran’ti vā ‘aññaṁ jīvaṁ aññaṁ sarīran’ti vāti.
“But reverends, I know and see like this.
Ahaṁ kho panetaṁ, āvuso, evaṁ jānāmi evaṁ passāmi.
Nevertheless, I do not say:
Atha ca panāhaṁ na vadāmi:
‘The soul and the body are the same thing’ or ‘The soul and the body are different things’. …
‘taṁ jīvaṁ taṁ sarīran’ti vā ‘aññaṁ jīvaṁ aññaṁ sarīran’ti vā …pe…
They enter and remain in the second absorption …
dutiyaṁ jhānaṁ …
third absorption …
tatiyaṁ jhānaṁ …
fourth absorption.
catutthaṁ jhānaṁ upasampajja viharati.
When a bhikkhu knows and sees like this, would it be appropriate to say of them:
Yo kho, āvuso, bhikkhu evaṁ jānāti evaṁ passati, kallaṁ nu kho tassetaṁ vacanāya:
‘The soul and the body are the same thing’ or ‘The soul and the body are different things’?”
‘taṁ jīvaṁ taṁ sarīran’ti vā ‘aññaṁ jīvaṁ aññaṁ sarīran’ti vāti?
“It would, reverend.”
Yo so, āvuso, bhikkhu evaṁ jānāti evaṁ passati kallaṁ, tassetaṁ vacanāya:
‘taṁ jīvaṁ taṁ sarīran’ti vā ‘aññaṁ jīvaṁ aññaṁ sarīran’ti vāti.
“But reverends, I know and see like this.
Ahaṁ kho panetaṁ, āvuso, evaṁ jānāmi evaṁ passāmi.
Nevertheless, I do not say:
Atha ca panāhaṁ na vadāmi:
‘The soul and the body are the same thing’ or ‘The soul and the body are different things’. …
‘taṁ jīvaṁ taṁ sarīran’ti vā ‘aññaṁ jīvaṁ aññaṁ sarīran’ti vā …pe…
They extend and project the mind toward knowledge and vision …
ñāṇadassanāya cittaṁ abhinīharati abhininnāmeti …
When a bhikkhu knows and sees like this, would it be appropriate to say of them:
yo kho, āvuso, bhikkhu evaṁ jānāti evaṁ passati, kallaṁ nu kho tassetaṁ vacanāya:
‘The soul and the body are the same thing’ or ‘The soul and the body are different things’?”
‘taṁ jīvaṁ taṁ sarīran’ti vā ‘aññaṁ jīvaṁ aññaṁ sarīran’ti vāti.
“It would, reverend.”
Yo so, āvuso, bhikkhu evaṁ jānāti evaṁ passati kallaṁ tassetaṁ vacanāya:
‘taṁ jīvaṁ taṁ sarīran’ti vā ‘aññaṁ jīvaṁ aññaṁ sarīran’ti vāti.
“But reverends, I know and see like this.
Ahaṁ kho panetaṁ, āvuso, evaṁ jānāmi evaṁ passāmi.
Nevertheless, I do not say:
Atha ca panāhaṁ na vadāmi:
‘The soul and the body are the same thing’ or ‘The soul and the body are different things’. …
‘taṁ jīvaṁ taṁ sarīran’ti vā ‘aññaṁ jīvaṁ aññaṁ sarīran’ti vā …pe….
They understand: ‘… there is no return to any state of existence.’
…pe… Nāparaṁ itthattāyāti pajānāti.
When a bhikkhu knows and sees like this, would it be appropriate to say of them:
Yo kho, āvuso, bhikkhu evaṁ jānāti evaṁ passati, kallaṁ nu kho tassetaṁ vacanāya:
‘The soul and the body are the same thing’ or ‘The soul and the body are different things’?”
‘taṁ jīvaṁ taṁ sarīran’ti vā ‘aññaṁ jīvaṁ aññaṁ sarīran’ti vāti?
“It would not, reverend.”
Yo so, āvuso, bhikkhu evaṁ jānāti evaṁ passati, na kallaṁ tassetaṁ vacanāya:
‘taṁ jīvaṁ taṁ sarīran’ti vā ‘aññaṁ jīvaṁ aññaṁ sarīran’ti vāti.
“But reverends, I know and see like this.
Ahaṁ kho panetaṁ, āvuso, evaṁ jānāmi evaṁ passāmi.
Nevertheless, I do not say:
Atha ca panāhaṁ na vadāmi:
‘The soul and the body are the same thing’ or ‘The soul and the body are different things’.”
‘taṁ jīvaṁ taṁ sarīran’ti vā ‘aññaṁ jīvaṁ aññaṁ sarīran’ti vā”ti.
That is what the Buddha said.
Idamavoca bhagavā.
Satisfied, the two renunciates were happy with what the Buddha said.
Attamanā te dve pabbajitā bhagavato bhāsitaṁ abhinandunti.
Jāliya Sutta: About Jaliya merely repeats the last part of Sutta 6. In the latter part, the Buddha tells how two ascetics, Mandissa and Jāliya, had asked him whether the soul, or life principle, is the same as the body, or different (this is one of the ‘unanswered questions’ mentioned in Sutta 9). The Buddha says anyone who has attained to higher states of understanding will no longer be bothered by such questions.