AN 4 The Book of the Fours – Catukkanipāta > AN 4.192 Facts

Numbered Discourses 4.192 – Aṅguttara Nikāya 4.192

20. The Great Chapter – 20. Mahāvagga

AN 4.192 Facts – Ṭhānasutta

1.1

“Bhikkhū, these four things can be known in four situations.

“Cattārimāni, bhikkhave, ṭhānāni catūhi ṭhānehi veditabbāni.

1.2

What four?

Katamāni cattāri?

1.3

You can get to know a person’s ethics by living with them. But only after a long time, not casually; only when paying attention, not when inattentive; and only by the wise, not the witless.

Saṁvāsena, bhikkhave, sīlaṁ veditabbaṁ, tañca kho dīghena addhunā, na ittaraṁ; manasikarotā, no amanasikarotā; paññavatā, no duppaññena.

1.4

You can get to know a person’s purity by dealing with them. …

Saṁvohārena, bhikkhave, soceyyaṁ veditabbaṁ, tañca kho dīghena addhunā, na ittaraṁ; manasikarotā, no amanasikarotā; paññavatā, no duppaññena.

1.5

You can get to know a person’s resilience in times of trouble. …

Āpadāsu, bhikkhave, thāmo veditabbo, so ca kho dīghena addhunā, na ittaraṁ; manasikarotā, no amanasikarotā; paññavatā, no duppaññena.

1.6

You can get to know a person’s wisdom by discussion. But only after a long time, not casually; only when paying attention, not when inattentive; and only by the wise, not the witless.

Sākacchāya, bhikkhave, paññā veditabbā, sā ca kho dīghena addhunā, na ittaraṁ; manasikarotā, no amanasikarotā; paññavatā, no duppaññenāti.

2.1

‘You can get to know a person’s ethics by living with them. But only after a long time, not casually; only when paying attention, not when inattentive; and only by the wise, not the witless.’

‘Saṁvāsena, bhikkhave, sīlaṁ veditabbaṁ, tañca kho dīghena addhunā, na ittaraṁ; manasikarotā, no amanasikarotā; paññavatā, no duppaññenā’ti,

2.2

That’s what I said, but why did I say it?

iti kho panetaṁ vuttaṁ. Kiñcetaṁ paṭicca vuttaṁ?

2.3

Take a person who’s living with someone else. They come to know:

Idha, bhikkhave, puggalo puggalena saddhiṁ saṁvasamāno evaṁ jānāti:

2.4

‘For a long time this venerable’s deeds have been broken, tainted, spotty, and marred. Their deeds and behavior are inconsistent.

‘dīgharattaṁ kho ayamāyasmā khaṇḍakārī chiddakārī sabalakārī kammāsakārī, na santatakārī na santatavutti;

2.5

This venerable is unethical, not ethical.’

sīlesu dussīlo ayamāyasmā, nāyamāyasmā sīlavā’ti.

3.1

Take another person who’s living with someone else. They come to know:

Idha pana, bhikkhave, puggalo puggalena saddhiṁ saṁvasamāno evaṁ jānāti:

3.2

‘For a long time this venerable’s deeds have been unbroken, impeccable, spotless, and unmarred. Their deeds and behavior are consistent.

‘dīgharattaṁ kho ayamāyasmā akhaṇḍakārī acchiddakārī asabalakārī akammāsakārī santatakārī santatavutti;

3.3

This venerable is ethical, not unethical.’

sīlesu sīlavā ayamāyasmā, nāyamāyasmā dussīlo’ti.

3.4

That’s why I said that you can get to know a person’s ethics by living with them. But only after a long time, not a short time; only when paying attention, not when inattentive; and only by the wise, not the witless.

‘Saṁvāsena, bhikkhave, sīlaṁ veditabbaṁ, tañca kho dīghena addhunā, na ittaraṁ; manasikarotā, no amanasikarotā; paññavatā, no duppaññenā’ti, iti yaṁ taṁ vuttaṁ idametaṁ paṭicca vuttaṁ.

4.1

‘You can get to know a person’s purity by dealing with them. …’

‘Saṁvohārena, bhikkhave, soceyyaṁ veditabbaṁ, tañca kho dīghena addhunā, na ittaraṁ; manasikarotā, no amanasikarotā; paññavatā, no duppaññenā’ti,

4.2

That’s what I said, but why did I say it?

iti kho panetaṁ vuttaṁ. Kiñcetaṁ paṭicca vuttaṁ?

4.3

Take a person who has dealings with someone else. They come to know:

Idha, bhikkhave, puggalo puggalena saddhiṁ saṁvoharamāno evaṁ jānāti:

4.4

‘This venerable deals with one person in one way. Then they deal with two, three, or many people each in different ways.

‘aññathā kho ayamāyasmā ekena eko voharati, aññathā dvīhi, aññathā tīhi, aññathā sambahulehi;

4.5

They’re not consistent from one deal to the next.

vokkamati ayamāyasmā purimavohārā pacchimavohāraṁ;

4.6

This venerable’s dealings are impure, not pure.’

aparisuddhavohāro ayamāyasmā, nāyamāyasmā parisuddhavohāro’ti.

5.1

Take another person who has dealings with someone else. They come to know:

Idha pana, bhikkhave, puggalo puggalena saddhiṁ saṁvoharamāno evaṁ jānāti:

5.2

‘This venerable deals with one person in one way. Then they deal with two, three, or many people each in the same way.

‘yatheva kho ayamāyasmā ekena eko voharati, tathā dvīhi, tathā tīhi, tathā sambahulehi.

5.3

They’re consistent from one deal to the next.

Nāyamāyasmā vokkamati purimavohārā pacchimavohāraṁ;

5.4

This venerable’s dealings are pure, not impure.’

parisuddhavohāro ayamāyasmā, nāyamāyasmā aparisuddhavohāro’ti.

5.5

That’s why I said that you can get to know a person’s purity by dealing with them. …

‘Saṁvohārena, bhikkhave, soceyyaṁ veditabbaṁ, tañca kho dīghena addhunā, na ittaraṁ; manasikarotā, no amanasikarotā; paññavatā, no duppaññenā’ti, iti yaṁ taṁ vuttaṁ idametaṁ paṭicca vuttaṁ.

6.1

‘You can get to know a person’s resilience in times of trouble. …’

‘Āpadāsu, bhikkhave, thāmo veditabbo, so ca kho dīghena addhunā, na ittaraṁ; manasikarotā, no amanasikarotā; paññavatā, no duppaññenā’ti,

6.2

That’s what I said, but why did I say it?

iti kho panetaṁ vuttaṁ. Kiñcetaṁ paṭicca vuttaṁ?

6.3

Take a person who experiences loss of family, wealth, or health. But they don’t reflect:

Idha, bhikkhave, ekacco ñātibyasanena vā phuṭṭho samāno, bhogabyasanena vā phuṭṭho samāno, rogabyasanena vā phuṭṭho samāno na iti paṭisañcikkhati:

6.4

‘The world’s like that. Reincarnation’s like that. That’s why the eight worldly conditions revolve around the world, and the world revolves around the eight worldly conditions:

‘tathābhūto kho ayaṁ lokasannivāso tathābhūto ayaṁ attabhāvapaṭilābho yathābhūte lokasannivāse yathābhūte attabhāvapaṭilābhe aṭṭha lokadhammā lokaṁ anuparivattanti loko ca aṭṭha lokadhamme anuparivattati—

6.5

gain and loss, fame and disgrace, blame and praise, pleasure and pain.’

lābho ca, alābho ca, yaso ca, ayaso ca, nindā ca, pasaṁsā ca, sukhañca, dukkhañcā’ti.

6.6

They sorrow and wail and lament, beating their breast and falling into confusion.

So ñātibyasanena vā phuṭṭho samāno bhogabyasanena vā phuṭṭho samāno rogabyasanena vā phuṭṭho samāno socati kilamati paridevati, urattāḷiṁ kandati, sammohaṁ āpajjati.

7.1

Take another person who experiences loss of family, wealth, or health. But they reflect:

Idha pana, bhikkhave, ekacco ñātibyasanena vā phuṭṭho samāno bhogabyasanena vā phuṭṭho samāno rogabyasanena vā phuṭṭho samāno iti paṭisañcikkhati:

7.2

‘The world’s like that. Reincarnation’s like that. That’s why the eight worldly conditions revolve around the world, and the world revolves around the eight worldly conditions:

7.3

gain and loss, fame and disgrace, blame and praise, pleasure and pain.’

lābho ca, alābho ca, yaso ca, ayaso ca, nindā ca, pasaṁsā ca, sukhañca, dukkhañcā’ti.

7.4

They don’t sorrow or wail or lament, beating their breast and falling into confusion.

So ñātibyasanena vā phuṭṭho samāno bhogabyasanena vā phuṭṭho samāno rogabyasanena vā phuṭṭho samāno na socati na kilamati na paridevati, na urattāḷiṁ kandati, na sammohaṁ āpajjati.

7.5

That’s why I said that you can get to know a person’s resilience in times of trouble. …

‘Āpadāsu, bhikkhave, thāmo veditabbo, so ca kho dīghena addhunā, na ittaraṁ; manasikarotā, no amanasikarotā; paññavatā, no duppaññenā’ti,

7.6

iti yaṁ taṁ vuttaṁ idametaṁ paṭicca vuttaṁ.

8.1

‘You can get to know a person’s wisdom by discussion. But only after a long time, not casually; only when paying attention, not when inattentive; and only by the wise, not the witless.’

‘Sākacchāya, bhikkhave, paññā veditabbā, sā ca kho dīghena addhunā, na ittaraṁ; manasikarotā, no amanasikarotā; paññavatā, no duppaññenā’ti,

8.2

That’s what I said, but why did I say it?

iti kho panetaṁ vuttaṁ. Kiñcetaṁ paṭicca vuttaṁ?

8.3

Take a person who is discussing with someone else. They come to know:

Idha, bhikkhave, puggalo puggalena saddhiṁ sākacchāyamāno evaṁ jānāti:

8.4

‘Judging by this venerable’s approach, by what they’re getting at, and by how they discuss a question, they’re witless, not wise.

‘yathā kho imassa āyasmato ummaggo yathā ca abhinīhāro yathā ca pañhāsamudāhāro, duppañño ayamāyasmā, nāyamāyasmā paññavā.

8.5

Why is that?

Taṁ kissa hetu?

8.6

This venerable does not utter a deep and meaningful saying that is peaceful, sublime, beyond the scope of logic, subtle, comprehensible to the astute.

Tathā hi ayamāyasmā na ceva gambhīraṁ atthapadaṁ udāharati santaṁ paṇītaṁ atakkāvacaraṁ nipuṇaṁ paṇḍitavedanīyaṁ.

8.7

When this venerable speaks on Dhamma they’re not able to explain the meaning, either briefly or in detail. They can’t teach it, assert it, establish it, clarify it, analyze it, or reveal it.

Yañca ayamāyasmā dhammaṁ bhāsati tassa ca nappaṭibalo saṅkhittena vā vitthārena vā atthaṁ ācikkhituṁ desetuṁ paññāpetuṁ paṭṭhapetuṁ vivarituṁ vibhajituṁ uttānīkātuṁ.

8.8

This venerable is witless, not wise.’

Duppañño ayamāyasmā, nāyamāyasmā paññavā’ti.

9.1

Suppose a person with good eyesight was standing on the bank of a lake. They’d see a little fish rising,

Seyyathāpi, bhikkhave, cakkhumā puriso udakarahadassa tīre ṭhito passeyya parittaṁ macchaṁ ummujjamānaṁ.

9.2

and think:

Tassa evamassa:

9.3

‘Judging by this fish’s approach, by the ripples it makes, and by its force, it’s a little fish, not a big one.’

‘yathā kho imassa macchassa ummaggo yathā ca ūmighāto yathā ca vegāyitattaṁ, paritto ayaṁ maccho, nāyaṁ maccho mahanto’ti.

9.4

In the same way, a person who is discussing with someone else would come to know:

Evamevaṁ kho, bhikkhave, puggalo puggalena saddhiṁ sākacchāyamāno evaṁ jānāti:

9.5

‘Judging by this venerable’s approach, by what they’re getting at, and by how they discuss a question, they’re witless, not wise. …’

‘yathā kho imassa āyasmato ummaggo yathā ca abhinīhāro yathā ca pañhāsamudāhāro, duppañño ayamāyasmā, nāyamāyasmā paññavā.

9.6

Taṁ kissa hetu?

9.7

Tathā hi ayamāyasmā na ceva gambhīraṁ atthapadaṁ udāharati santaṁ paṇītaṁ atakkāvacaraṁ nipuṇaṁ paṇḍitavedanīyaṁ.

9.8

Yañca ayamāyasmā dhammaṁ bhāsati, tassa ca na paṭibalo saṅkhittena vā vitthārena vā atthaṁ ācikkhituṁ desetuṁ paññāpetuṁ paṭṭhapetuṁ vivarituṁ vibhajituṁ uttānīkātuṁ.

9.9

Duppañño ayamāyasmā, nāyamāyasmā paññavā’ti.

10.1

Take another person who is discussing with someone else. They come to know:

Idha pana, bhikkhave, puggalo puggalena saddhiṁ sākacchāyamāno evaṁ jānāti:

10.2

‘Judging by this venerable’s approach, by what they’re getting at, and by how they discuss a question, they’re wise, not witless.

‘yathā kho imassa āyasmato ummaggo yathā ca abhinīhāro yathā ca pañhāsamudāhāro, paññavā ayamāyasmā, nāyamāyasmā duppañño.

10.3

Why is that?

Taṁ kissa hetu?

10.4

This venerable utters a deep and meaningful saying that is peaceful, sublime, beyond the scope of logic, subtle, comprehensible to the astute.

Tathā hi ayamāyasmā gambhīrañceva atthapadaṁ udāharati santaṁ paṇītaṁ atakkāvacaraṁ nipuṇaṁ paṇḍitavedanīyaṁ.

10.5

When this venerable speaks on Dhamma they’re able to explain the meaning, either briefly or in detail. They teach it, assert it, establish it, clarify it, analyze it, and reveal it.

Yañca ayamāyasmā dhammaṁ bhāsati, tassa ca paṭibalo saṅkhittena vā vitthārena vā atthaṁ ācikkhituṁ desetuṁ paññāpetuṁ paṭṭhapetuṁ vivarituṁ vibhajituṁ uttānīkātuṁ.

10.6

This venerable is wise, not witless.’

Paññavā ayamāyasmā, nāyamāyasmā duppañño’ti.

11.1

Suppose a man with good eyesight was standing on the bank of a lake. He’d see a big fish rising,

Seyyathāpi, bhikkhave, cakkhumā puriso udakarahadassa tīre ṭhito passeyya mahantaṁ macchaṁ ummujjamānaṁ.

11.2

and think:

Tassa evamassa:

11.3

‘Judging by this fish’s approach, by the ripples it makes, and by its force, it’s a big fish, not a little one.’

‘yathā kho imassa macchassa ummaggo yathā ca ūmighāto yathā ca vegāyitattaṁ, mahanto ayaṁ maccho, nāyaṁ maccho paritto’ti.

11.4

In the same way, a person who is discussing with someone else would come to know:

Evamevaṁ kho, bhikkhave, puggalo puggalena saddhiṁ sākacchāyamāno evaṁ jānāti:

11.5

‘Judging by this venerable’s approach, by what they’re getting at, and by how they articulate a question, they’re wise, not witless. …’

‘yathā kho imassa āyasmato ummaggo yathā ca abhinīhāro yathā ca pañhāsamudāhāro, paññavā ayamāyasmā, nāyamāyasmā duppañño.

11.6

Taṁ kissa hetu?

11.7

Tathā hi ayamāyasmā gambhīrañceva atthapadaṁ udāharati santaṁ paṇītaṁ atakkāvacaraṁ nipuṇaṁ paṇḍitavedanīyaṁ.

11.8

11.9

Paññavā ayamāyasmā, nāyamāyasmā duppañño’ti.

12.1

That’s why I said that you can get to know a person’s wisdom by discussion. But only after a long time, not casually; only when paying attention, not when inattentive; and only by the wise, not the witless.

‘Sākacchāya, bhikkhave, paññā veditabbā, sā ca kho dīghena addhunā, na ittaraṁ; manasikarotā, no amanasikarotā; paññavatā, no duppaññenā’ti, iti yaṁ taṁ vuttaṁ idametaṁ paṭicca vuttaṁ.

12.2

These are the four things that can be known in four situations.”

Imāni kho, bhikkhave, cattāri ṭhānāni imehi catūhi ṭhānehi veditabbānī”ti.

12.3

Dutiyaṁ.