AN 3 The Book of the Threes – Tikanipāta > AN 3.67 Topics of Discussion

Numbered Discourses 3.67 – Aṅguttara Nikāya 3.67

7. The Great Chapter – 7. Mahāvagga

AN 3.67 Topics of Discussion – Kathāvatthusutta

1.1

“There are, bhikkhū, these three topics of discussion.

“Tīṇimāni, bhikkhave, kathāvatthūni.

1.2

What three?

Katamāni tīṇi?

1.3

You might discuss the past:

Atītaṁ vā, bhikkhave, addhānaṁ ārabbha kathaṁ katheyya:

1.4

‘That is how it was in the past.’

‘evaṁ ahosi atītamaddhānan’ti.

1.5

You might discuss the future:

Anāgataṁ vā, bhikkhave, addhānaṁ ārabbha kathaṁ katheyya:

1.6

‘That is how it will be in the future.’

‘evaṁ bhavissati anāgatamaddhānan’ti.

1.7

Or you might discuss the present:

Etarahi vā, bhikkhave, paccuppannaṁ addhānaṁ ārabbha kathaṁ katheyya:

1.8

‘This is how it is at present.’

‘evaṁ hoti etarahi paccuppannamaddhānan’ti.

2.1

You can know whether or not a person is competent to hold a discussion by seeing how they take part in a discussion.

Kathāsampayogena, bhikkhave, puggalo veditabbo yadi vā kaccho yadi vā akacchoti.

2.2

When a person is asked a question, if it needs to be answered definitively and they don’t answer it definitively; or if it needs analysis and they answer without analyzing it; or if it needs a counter-question and they answer without a counter-question; or if it should be set aside and they don’t set it aside, then that person is not competent to hold a discussion.

Sacāyaṁ, bhikkhave, puggalo pañhaṁ puṭṭho samāno ekaṁsabyākaraṇīyaṁ pañhaṁ na ekaṁsena byākaroti, vibhajjabyākaraṇīyaṁ pañhaṁ na vibhajja byākaroti, paṭipucchābyākaraṇīyaṁ pañhaṁ na paṭipucchā byākaroti, ṭhapanīyaṁ pañhaṁ na ṭhapeti, evaṁ santāyaṁ, bhikkhave, puggalo akaccho hoti.

2.3

When a person is asked a question, if it needs to be answered definitively and they answer it definitively; or if it needs analysis and they answer after analyzing it; or if it needs a counter-question and they answer with a counter-question; or if it should be set aside and they set it aside, then that person is competent to hold a discussion.

Sace panāyaṁ, bhikkhave, puggalo pañhaṁ puṭṭho samāno ekaṁsabyākaraṇīyaṁ pañhaṁ ekaṁsena byākaroti, vibhajjabyākaraṇīyaṁ pañhaṁ vibhajja byākaroti, paṭipucchābyākaraṇīyaṁ pañhaṁ paṭipucchā byākaroti, ṭhapanīyaṁ pañhaṁ ṭhapeti, evaṁ santāyaṁ, bhikkhave, puggalo kaccho hoti.

3.1

You can know whether or not a person is competent to hold a discussion by seeing how they take part in a discussion.

Kathāsampayogena, bhikkhave, puggalo veditabbo yadi vā kaccho yadi vā akacchoti.

3.2

When a person is asked a question, if they’re not consistent about what their position is and what it isn’t; about what they propose; about speaking from what they know; and about the appropriate procedure, then that person is not competent to hold a discussion.

Sacāyaṁ, bhikkhave, puggalo pañhaṁ puṭṭho samāno ṭhānāṭhāne na saṇṭhāti parikappe na saṇṭhāti aññātavāde na saṇṭhāti paṭipadāya na saṇṭhāti, evaṁ santāyaṁ, bhikkhave, puggalo akaccho hoti.

3.3

When a person is asked a question, if they are consistent about what their position is and what it isn’t; about what they propose; about speaking from what they know; and about the appropriate procedure, then that person is competent to hold a discussion.

Sace panāyaṁ, bhikkhave, puggalo pañhaṁ puṭṭho samāno ṭhānāṭhāne saṇṭhāti parikappe saṇṭhāti aññātavāde saṇṭhāti paṭipadāya saṇṭhāti, evaṁ santāyaṁ, bhikkhave, puggalo kaccho hoti.

4.1

You can know whether or not a person is competent to hold a discussion by seeing how they take part in a discussion.

Kathāsampayogena, bhikkhave, puggalo veditabbo yadi vā kaccho yadi vā akacchoti.

4.2

When a person is asked a question, if they dodge the issue; distract the discussion with irrelevant points; or display annoyance, hate, and bitterness, then that person is not competent to hold a discussion.

Sacāyaṁ, bhikkhave, puggalo pañhaṁ puṭṭho samāno aññenaññaṁ paṭicarati, bahiddhā kathaṁ apanāmeti, kopañca dosañca appaccayañca pātukaroti, evaṁ santāyaṁ, bhikkhave, puggalo akaccho hoti.

4.3

When a person is asked a question, if they don’t dodge the issue; distract the discussion with irrelevant points; or display annoyance, hate, and bitterness, then that person is competent to hold a discussion.

Sace panāyaṁ, bhikkhave, puggalo pañhaṁ puṭṭho samāno na aññenaññaṁ paṭicarati na bahiddhā kathaṁ apanāmeti, na kopañca dosañca appaccayañca pātukaroti, evaṁ santāyaṁ, bhikkhave, puggalo kaccho hoti.

5.1

You can know whether or not a person is competent to hold a discussion by seeing how they take part in a discussion.

Kathāsampayogena, bhikkhave, puggalo veditabbo yadi vā kaccho yadi vā akacchoti.

5.2

When a person is asked a question, if they intimidate, crush, mock, or seize on trivial mistakes, then that person is not competent to hold a discussion.

Sacāyaṁ, bhikkhave, puggalo pañhaṁ puṭṭho samāno abhiharati abhimaddati anupajagghati khalitaṁ gaṇhāti, evaṁ santāyaṁ, bhikkhave, puggalo akaccho hoti.

5.3

When a person is asked a question, if they don’t intimidate, crush, mock, or seize on trivial mistakes, then that person is competent to hold a discussion.

Sace panāyaṁ, bhikkhave, puggalo pañhaṁ puṭṭho samāno nābhiharati nābhimaddati na anupajagghati na khalitaṁ gaṇhāti, evaṁ santāyaṁ, bhikkhave, puggalo kaccho hoti.

6.1

You can know whether or not a person has what’s required by seeing how they take part in a discussion.

Kathāsampayogena, bhikkhave, puggalo veditabbo yadi vā saupaniso yadi vā anupanisoti.

6.2

If they lend an ear they have what’s required; if they don’t lend an ear they don’t have what’s required.

Anohitasoto, bhikkhave, anupaniso hoti, ohitasoto saupaniso hoti.

6.3

Someone who has what’s required directly knows one thing, completely understands one thing, gives up one thing, and realizes one thing—

So saupaniso samāno abhijānāti ekaṁ dhammaṁ, parijānāti ekaṁ dhammaṁ, pajahati ekaṁ dhammaṁ, sacchikaroti ekaṁ dhammaṁ.

6.4

and then they experience complete freedom.

So abhijānanto ekaṁ dhammaṁ, parijānanto ekaṁ dhammaṁ, pajahanto ekaṁ dhammaṁ, sacchikaronto ekaṁ dhammaṁ sammāvimuttiṁ phusati.

6.5

This is the purpose of discussion,

Etadatthā, bhikkhave, kathā;

6.6

consultation,

etadatthā mantanā;

6.7

the requirements,

etadatthā upanisā;

6.8

and listening well, that is, the liberation of the mind by not grasping.

etadatthaṁ sotāvadhānaṁ, yadidaṁ anupādā cittassa vimokkhoti.

7.1

Those who converse with hostility,

Ye viruddhā sallapanti,

7.2

too sure of themselves, arrogant,

viniviṭṭhā samussitā;

7.3

ignoble, attacking virtues,

Anariyaguṇamāsajja,

7.4

they look for flaws in each other.

aññoññavivaresino.

8.1

They rejoice together when their opponent

Dubbhāsitaṁ vikkhalitaṁ,

8.2

speaks poorly and makes a mistake,

sampamohaṁ parājayaṁ;

8.3

becoming confused and defeated—

Aññoññassābhinandanti,

8.4

but the noble ones don’t discuss like this.

tadariyo kathanācare.

9.1

If an astute person wants to hold a discussion

Sace cassa kathākāmo,

9.2

connected with the teaching and its meaning—

kālamaññāya paṇḍito;

9.3

the kind of discussion that noble ones hold—

Dhammaṭṭhapaṭisaṁyuttā,

9.4

then that wise one should start the discussion,

yā ariyacaritā kathā.

10.1

knowing when the time is right,

Taṁ kathaṁ kathaye dhīro,

10.2

neither hostile nor arrogant.

aviruddho anussito;

10.3

Not over-excited,

Anunnatena manasā,

10.4

contemptuous, or aggressive,

apaḷāso asāhaso.

11.1

or with a mind full of jealousy,

Anusūyāyamāno so,

11.2

they’d speak from what they rightly know.

sammadaññāya bhāsati;

11.3

They agree with what was well spoken,

Subhāsitaṁ anumodeyya,

11.4

without criticizing what was poorly said.

dubbhaṭṭhe nāpasādaye.

12.1

They’d not persist in finding faults,

Upārambhaṁ na sikkheyya,

12.2

nor seize on trivial mistakes,

khalitañca na gāhaye;

12.3

neither intimidating nor crushing the other,

Nābhihare nābhimadde,

12.4

nor would they speak suggestively.

na vācaṁ payutaṁ bhaṇe.

13.1

Good people consult

Aññātatthaṁ pasādatthaṁ,

13.2

for the sake of knowledge and clarity.

sataṁ ve hoti mantanā;

13.3

That’s how the noble ones consult,

Evaṁ kho ariyā mantenti,

13.4

this is a noble consultation.

esā ariyāna mantanā;

13.5

Knowing this, an intelligent person

Etadaññāya medhāvī,

13.6

would consult without arrogance.”

na samusseyya mantaye”ti.

13.7

Sattamaṁ.